De-Troit Basketball

Because the Detroit Pistons have been in the mix for so long, there's a certain sentiment of finality around the squad once again falling short in the Conference Finals. But it does seem worth pointing out that their future actually looks pretty bright. They have no bad long-term deals on the books whatsoever -- they're two highest-paid players ('Sheed and Billups) are their two highest-paid players, and the two guys on long-term deals (Billups and Tayshaun Prince) are the ones you want on long-term deals. They have several talented young players in Stuckey, Jason Maxiell, and Amir Johnson who it's reasonable to expect to see improve and who could probably step up to play a bigger role if necessary.

Consequently, can plausibly afford to trade part of its current core (most likely 'Sheed or Rip Hamilton) if a good opportunity comes along but can also plausibly afford to say "no" to potential offers and hold out for a better opportunity. All things considered, the extent to which this franchise has been well-managed continues to impress. One can't, however, help but wonder how things might have turned out if not for their unfortunate 2003 draft choice.

Comments

they're two highest-paid players ('Sheed and Billups) are their two highest-paid players

Words fail.

I love you, Matthew Yglesias.

Posted by Freddie | June 1, 2008 2:00 PM

Well, if they'd drafted Carmelo or Chris Bosh (or Dwyane Wade) then they might not have

(1) Made the Sheed trade, and/or
(2) Won the 2004 title.

That Darko in retrospect is not what Chad Ford thought he was is undeniable; I still think he can settle out as a nice 12 and 8 kind of guy in the league. I think it's silly to blame the Pistons for drafting him (again, for one thing, you don't know what the franchise history looks like if they hadn't), but I do blame them for horribly, horribly mismanaging him when he was there.

Posted by Quarterican | June 1, 2008 2:14 PM

They traded Darko for the draft choice they used to chose Stuckey. Dumars was unlucky, or made a mistake, with Darko, but he still managed to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse--which proves Matthew's point.

Posted by scdrawe | June 1, 2008 2:21 PM

What makes Detroit work is that Sheed doesn't want to be a number one option and is willing to accept less than #1 money to that end, but is also willing to play at nearly that high a level on occasion. Sheed is the stick that stirs that drink, and he's slowing down. Once he's gone, they're an also ran. It's largely a conference of also-rans so that might not matter, but they won't challenge for a championship.

Posted by SomeCallMeTim | June 1, 2008 2:25 PM

they're two highest-paid players ('Sheed and Billups) are their two highest-paid players

I'm quoting it again because this was such an awe inspiring train wreck of a sentence.

Posted by cd6 | June 1, 2008 2:28 PM

I'm quoting it again because this was such an awe inspiring train wreck of a sentence.

It's not a train wreck, it's a koan. See the inner truth. Be the inner truth.

Posted by SomeCallMeTim | June 1, 2008 2:31 PM

During parts of their 2004 championship run and most of the first half of 2005-06, they played some of the best team basketball since probably the late-1980s Los Angeles Lakers, but in the end their inability to score kept them from more titles...

Worse, I think they lost something in the middle of 2006, not-so-coincidentally after they had four players named to the All-Star team and discarded their underdog label that had served them so well the previous two years.

Some of the DET papers pointed out the rules changes in the past few years, which have made the likes of Chris Paul and Deron Williams nearly unguardable, and hurt defensive teams, are to blame. I place more stock in DET's overreliance on jump-shooting, especially against MIA in '06...

Yeah, that #2 pick in the 2003 Draft still stings (even though Joe D did get Stuckey as part of the Darko deal to ORL), but Chris Bosh was considered a reach at the time, and Dumars was not sold on 'Melo. As a UK alum, I never would have passed on Wade...

I think they should wait until near the deadline next season, assess their progress, and keep 'Sheed if they are on-track to win the division and trade him if they are not. I think Cleveland and Chicago will improve next year and if Orlando can ever find a guard big enough to neutralize Billups will probably end the conference finals streak...

Nonetheless, they will have won an NBA title with not one member of the team a shoo-in for Springfield, thanks in no small part to Derek Fisher's "00.4" jumper to close Game 5 of the Western Semis in San Antonio.

Posted by M. E. G. | June 1, 2008 2:35 PM

Rasheed Wallace is wearing out his welcome with the fans because of his personality problems.

Posted by stm177 | June 1, 2008 2:38 PM

Not only did they mismanage Darko, they treated him with open distain; they were a win-now squad who had no use for a big Euro project who wasn't going to help them win that season. Darko's got nobody to blame but himself if he has no career, but the Pistons could have help him out. They just didn't have any interest in doing so.

Posted by Baseballhead | June 1, 2008 2:39 PM

It's not a train wreck, it's a koan.

Feh. It's just pathetic that MY can't be bothered to read his own posts back once before publishing.

Posted by Dissed | June 1, 2008 2:47 PM

Anyone who watched the Boston-Detroit series would never, ever say Rasheed is their best player. Most talented? Surely. But hardly their best. In fact, dude stunk it up so much that even Darko might have been better.

These eyes say Rip Hamilton is Detroit's best player, since Billups has just been too inconsistent.

Whatever though. 6 Conference Finals in 6 Years and only one champsionship???? Folks look at the Atlanta Braves as failures because they never lived up to their potential. Same goes for these Pistons.

Despite all the praise thrown at them, unless the other team is full of injuries and can't field a full line-up (see Lakers Pistons finals with Karl Malone, Rick Fox and Devon George not playing), then Detroit just can't get over.

These Pistons are "this close" to being Chokers.

Posted by The Foulness | June 1, 2008 2:55 PM

I don't fault Pistons GM Dumars for Darko. He eventually turned Darko into Rodney Stuckey and cap relief. You have to take the good with the bad. Amir and Maxiell were both 2nd round picks and if teams could redo the '07 draft Stuckey would likely be a lottery pick. I'm a Pistons fan and I think the team had a good season and has a solid foundation for next season.

Posted by joejoejoe | June 1, 2008 3:01 PM

"Sheed is the stick that stirs that drink, and he's slowing down."

That's why Detroit is in much bigger trouble than people like MY suspect. I think the Bos series conclusively showed that without Sheed playing at a high level, the Pistons have got some real problems in their front court (and no, Maxiel is not the answer).

Mike

Posted by MBunge | June 1, 2008 3:03 PM

The Foulness - If you have 4 equal teams in the semifinals of a tournament a random distribution of results for a team that makes 6 semifinals in a row would be 1.5 championships and 3 finals appearances. The Pistons have 1 championship and 2 finals appearances. That's not the best result but it's also not awful.

Posted by joejoejoe | June 1, 2008 3:08 PM

As a Detroit fan I'm unfortunately not surprised to see them lose to the Celtics. I will actually be rooting for them against the Lakers, largely because the Lakers are the Lakers.

But yes, I think the Pistons need some retooling before they can seriously compete for another championship. Dumars has done well so far (I am eternally grateful they didn't hire Isaiah), but we'll see if he can get it done again without going back to square zero.

Posted by mwg | June 1, 2008 3:34 PM

One can't, however, help but wonder how things might have turned out if not for their unfortunate 2003 draft choice.

Two words why Detroit needs serious re-tooling: Flip Saunders. Drafting DeWayne Wade or Chris Bosh would not have made a difference.

In the NBA, the role of the Head Coach is often overrrated. Doc Rivers, for example, wasn't that bad as a 26-win coach in 2007, but was not that good as a 66-win coach in 2008. Doc didn't become a genius over night, instead he received Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett.

Still, there is a reason why Phil Jackson, Greg Popovich, Larry Brown and Pat Riley teams reach the finals and Flip Saunders and Mike D'Antoni teams do not.

Posted by Shine | June 1, 2008 3:51 PM

It's hard to get out of being a good but not great team when you're picking after 25 in the first round every year. Particularly because NBA officiating tends to benefit teams that have individual superstars much more than teams with several quality guys. MY is right, though; the Pistons have an excellent young second team that can really develop. They do need a change, though. Maybe trade 'Sheed to a team looking to contend for the title next year?

Posted by Freddie | June 1, 2008 3:56 PM

Most of the negative things that people are saying about the Pistons now, people were saying last year when the lost to Cleveland. Dumars decided to hang tight and make minor adjustments. To make an analogy, he held on 18. You could make the case that this was too conservative given the end result, but if the Celtics hadn't hit blackjack with the KG trade (plus several other things going their way), Detroit would likely have been back in the Finals. And note that no one was criticizing the strategy BEFORE the conference finals.

Posted by Trieu | June 1, 2008 4:12 PM

You know what other team is extremely well managed too? The San Antonio Spurs. I know people joke around the Spurs and Pistons being ratings poison for the NBA, but each team's management has ensured that both squads will be knocking around the NBA Finals for years to come.

Posted by Vinn | June 1, 2008 5:22 PM

Joejoejoe beat me to my first defense – the Pistons record just ain’t that bad. The other point is – on personnel alone – they just aren’t that great a team. They have four solid NBA players who would do well on any team – but no true franchise player. They just don’t have a Kobe, a Shaq, a KG, etc. On talent alone they aren’t much better then the Wizards, yet have done a whole hell of a lot more with the talent they have. I think a good argument can be made that Saunders has done an outstanding job of guiding this very good, but not great, team into 6 conf. finals in a row.

Posted by Bob | June 1, 2008 5:29 PM

It has surprised me, given his high profile as a 'bad boy', that Wallace hasn't taken more flack, I mean MAJOR flack, for the Pistons loss.

As a Celts fan, I would scream at the TV when KG would defer, from 18 feet out, in many of the 4th quarters. But man, Wallace to my eyes was a certified goat in that series, passive on offense, weak on the boards. Stuckey would have been a more effective 'power' forward.

Posted by Andruw | June 1, 2008 6:05 PM

As a rabid Pistons fan and rabid Obama supporter I can't help but see parallels between the Celts/Stons and the primaries.

The Pistons were the eastern powerhouse and it was their turn to get (return) to the finals. But all of a sudden here comes this team out of nowhere, thanks to Danny Ainge, who came in and took over.

I want to bitch and moan but we got beat fair and square and that's the way it goes. So my basketball world feels a bit like a Clinton supporter's political world.

Another parallel... Had Dumars not made the dumb decision to pick Darko in '03, I think we'd be in a much different position today. Same way with Hillary's Iraq vote.

Posted by recusancy | June 1, 2008 6:31 PM

Stuckey has a legit chance to be a superstar and is very likely to become at least a minor star. They're going to have a ton of cap room in two years when all the big free agents come on the market. They have stayed right near the top of the league for six years, won one title and barely missed a second, despite not having a major star on their roster.

Dumars is the best GM in the sport (kinda ironic that the worst GM in the sport was his backcourt mate on the great Detroit teams of the late 80s).

Posted by Paul Campos | June 1, 2008 6:35 PM

Dumars is good, but RC Buford is the best. (And I dislike the Spurs).

Posted by Ethan | June 1, 2008 8:09 PM

THE WORST CALL IN NBA HISTORY!! (this from a fan who has been watching for fifty years)

Boston - Detroit Game 6:

Paul Pierce lined up for a three-pointer, faked the defender into the air and after being run into made the basket. The replay showed that he made no movement whatever before the shot.

The referee, Salvador, called an offensive foul, thereby depriving Pierce of the three points and the foul shot for a fourth point and allowed the defensive player to sink two foul shots for a net swing of SIX points.

While it didn't make a difference in the end result as Boston won, at the time it definitely slowed Boston's comeback as at that time they were down. Still, that one call had the potential of deciding that game and perhaps the series.

Posted by chet | June 1, 2008 8:31 PM

chet,

If anything it was a travel from Pierce, and as a Boston fan I could accept it, because it was what happened.

As for an offensive foul, no freaking way. The ref already knew the call before the contact, and that's pathetic.

Posted by BeatLA | June 1, 2008 8:58 PM

While statistics say the Pistons aren't that bad come playoff time, looking at the teams they lost to tells a much different story.

Losing to the Nets, Cavs and Heat while having home court advantage each time is the sign of an underperforming team. Once is excuseable, three times is a pattern.

Posted by Dervin | June 1, 2008 11:06 PM

Getting rid of Wallace will do two things for the Pistons:

1) He's a quality big man with one year left on a reasonable contract, so they can get a solid backup to Tayshaun and (probably) a backup big for him. Or, if they want, a lottery pick.

and

2) Amir Johnson, the guy who seven different NBA metastats averaged out as the 14th best player in the Association, will finally get solid minutes in the regular season and the playoffs. I can understand Flip not playing Amit against KG, since that matchup was ugly defensively in January. But there was no reason for him not being out there to vacuum up rebounds and block almost 6 shots/48 minutes when KG wasn't on the floor.

Posted by Nate | June 2, 2008 2:03 AM

Oops, that should be "15th best." But I'm pretty drunk.

Posted by Nate | June 2, 2008 2:07 AM

MY just cannot give the man his due. Say his name MY: Joe Dumars. He was class, a leader and a champion on the court and he is class, a leader and a champion off the court.

Posted by debrazza | June 2, 2008 4:12 AM

I say trade Rasheed. I'm sick of his act. When a player's story is "will he get another technical and have to sit out the next game?" rather than "how many points will he score tonight?" it's time for him to go. He can score in the post, but for some reason rarely wants to, and that leaves the team with no low-post option, which means everyone else has to tire themselves out running around, trying to get open and relying on jumpshots. Plus KG dominated him when Boston had the ball.

Right now I'd settle for Maxiell in the starting 5. At least we know what we're getting with him.

Posted by Notorious P.A.T. | June 2, 2008 7:32 AM

6 conference finals. They flipped heads 2 out of 6 times.

2 Finals appearances. They flipped heads 1 out of two times.

Chance explains the result just as well as any of the narratives created by sports journalists and fans. If you flip a coin 6 times, there is a 22/64 (34%) chance of flipping heads 2 or fewer times (and that's with a team/coach that's "good enough" that it will win 50% of the time in the long run).

Joe D should persue any and all opportunities for improvement, but he shouldn't do anything just for change's sake if it doesn't clearly improve the team.

Posted by A-ro | June 2, 2008 8:45 AM

"... Saunders has done an outstanding job of guiding this very good, but not great, team into 6 conf. finals in a row."

Not so fast my friend — Saunders has been coach of the Pistons for only three years. He inherited Larry Brown's team that had been in the NBA finals two straight years (Brown's '04 team winning it all). Rick Carlisle started the string of Eastern Conf. finals appearances before Brown.

Check out Saunders' playoff record as coach, and you'll see it's an unrelieved string of disappointment. Your average ineffectual middle school teacher has a more commanding presence.

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the other Wallace — Ben. From the standpoint of attitude, desire, and energy on the court, not to mention dominant rebounding and shot blocking, Ben Wallace provided the Pistons in 2004 with a clear advantage over everybody they played that year on the way to the NBA championship. He was certainly no threat offensively, but on that team it wasn't necessary. His production dropped off notably thereafter, and while it made sense for the Pistons to let him go, they have not found a replacement big man who could provide what Ben did at his peak.

Sheed seems to be done himself, and I think that he, along with Saunders, will not be in Detroit next season.

Posted by bluestatedon | June 2, 2008 9:53 AM

i think the pistons have done as well as their personnel suggests they should do: as bluestatedon notes, they are effectively one player short of being the dominant team. coaching can't make up for that.

Posted by howard | June 2, 2008 11:18 AM

I think Flip has done okay, the real problem is Rasheed and I'm a Tar Heel. Rasheed may be the most talented big man ever to wear Carolina Blue, but you would never know it from his play in the pros. He's a nice enough player but he could be a scoring machine inside or out if he really, really wanted to.

But that's not the real reason he's not right for the Pistons. That team seems to feed off his emotional state and he's frequently either undermotivated or overexcited. The other players seem to like him and he may be a good teammate, but the Pistons should think about trading him while they can get value.

Posted by SteveH | June 2, 2008 12:20 PM

I would argue Sheed has to go, his emotional state and inconsistent play in the post are an obstacle on an otherwise excellent team. But only for the right player/draft pick. Dumars is sitting in the drivers seat on this. Wait like Kupchak did, ignore the pressure and sit tight until a true upgrade appears. Don't trade just to appear you are doing something.

Posted by Hebisner | June 2, 2008 12:55 PM