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Electoral College Versus GOP

08 Jun 2008 01:04 pm

Most current speculation on a mismatch between the popular vote and the electoral college currently focuses, for various reasons, on the prospect of McCain winning the election with fewer votes than Obama gets. Nate at 538, however, points out a significant way in which the electoral college is disadvantaging the Republicans -- it's based on where people lived during the 2000 census rather than where they live today.

If you re-did the allocation based on 2007 Current Population Survey data you'd give three electoral votes to Texas and one each to Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Nevada, South Carolina, and Utah. Most of those are solid GOP states, and the two that aren't (Nevada and Florida) have a distinct GOP tilt. Meanwhile, Iowa, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Michigan, New Jersey, New York and Pennsylvania would each lose one electoral vote and Ohio would lose two. So consider that a reason for conservatives to want to get behind the National Popular Vote movement.

Meanwhile, there's obviously a problem here for Democrats in 2012. The good news is that as some of these states gain population -- especially Arizona, Nevada, and Texas -- they seem to be becoming less solidly Republican. But we're probably still quite a ways from Texas being a competitive state. So you see further evidence that the Democrats' future (or lack thereof) is in the Southwest and the party's ability to start reliably getting electoral votes out of Nevada, Arizona, Colorado, and New Mexico to replace some of the ones that are going to be taken away from the Northeast.

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Comments (22)

Bush gained about a dozen electoral votes between 2000 and 2004 due to electoral college voting shifts. Kerry came close to winning in the EC while losing the popular vote anyway, by almost carrying Ohio.

Media commentators like to go on about the political effects of population shifts, but they always wind up evening out. The reason is that moving from a blue area to a red area doesn't magically change people's political preferences. You have to engage in deliberate gerrymandering to draw lines to turn a popular vote minority into a representative majority, and you can't redraw the state boundaries by definition. So campaigns are left with the old fashioned method of trying to convince the most voters, regardless of where they happen to live.

More technically, the more representatives an area has, the easier it is for a minority to grab a seat, and vice versa. So if an area is losing representation, this may not hurt the majority party in that area since the eliminated seats will turn out to have been held by the majority party. If an area is gaining representation, the minority party might find it easier to win one of the new seats and gain a foothold.

In the current US political alignment, the Republicans are the party of people with large families, and the party of "growth" area (ie spending on government contracts and highways is good, spending on low income people left behind in low growth areas is bad). So the Republican states always turn out to be the fast growing states. But that is because the Republican base is the fast growing areas. Once an area is no longer fast growing, it stops voting Republican and the new Republican base becomes the next fast growing area, and so on. Being the party of areas growing fastest in population only helps if you can somehow keep those areas once the growth cools off.

The same applies to arguments that since the Republicans are the party of large families, they will somehow just outreproduce the Democrats. That will only happen if every child in the large family has a large family of their own, unlikely given the nature of an industrialized economy and an educated workforce.

If those states are becoming less solidly Republican, doesn't that indicate a lot of the people moving there and fueling those population booms are, in fact, Democrats?

In which case I don't think Nate's argument holds much water. If Democrats are moving out of states Democrats can win and into states Democrats cannot win, this seems like it will have little effect on the popular vote, and a bigger, negative effect for Dems in the electoral college.

Indeed, if those new voters are coming from swing states (like Ohio, loosing two college votes) then I'd say this is actually a lot worse for Dems.

Arizona is only a solid GOP state with McCain as the nominee. Good chance it'll be in 2012, assuming McCain's not a candidate for anything that year.

The effect the population shift has on voting depends a lot on who the voters are who are moving. If it's solid Ds moving, then we have a better chance of winning the growing sunbelt states in 2012. If it's solid Rs who are leaving the rustbelt states for sunbelt states, then we have a better chance of winning Ohio (albeit with fewer electoral votes) next time. And if it's a mix, then it'll probably moderate the sunbelt states and increase our chances at least somewhat).

Dave said: "If those states are becoming less solidly Republican, doesn't that indicate a lot of the people moving there and fueling those population booms are, in fact, Democrats?"

Not necessarily. It may be that states are turning more Democratic due to organic change within the state--people becoming disillusioned with Republicans, etc.

My feeling is that this is what is happening in Texas. I don't think the new Texans are necessarily more Democratic than those who already live here. But we have a combination of the Republican's national woes, the state party's unpopularity, and an alienation between the hardcore nativist Republican base and the more corporatist party leadership. These are the factors helping Democrats here more so than new Democrats moving to the state, I believe.

Another way to look at this is if you redid the Electoral College like that today there'd be an even GREATER chance that Obama loses while winning the popular vote. So I think Republicans would just rather wait til the next cycle than to try to change anything.

By 2012 we'll all be sick of the overwhelming Dem majority that is about to be elected and the GOP will likely have changed significantly following the coming disaster for them, so who cares?

Not necessarily. It may be that states are turning more Democratic due to organic change within the state--people becoming disillusioned with Republicans, etc.

That's true, and I suppose it's probably a combination of the two. That said, it's impossible to really know how these population shifts are effecting the popular vote vs. the electoral college without knowing the partisan affiliation of the people moving.

If every new voter in Texas is a Democrat from Ohio, then that's a big electoral college disadvantage.

so the trick is for every liberal to move to large populous deep blue state during the 2010 census then move back?

This just points to the need for the national popular vote legislation in every state.

the GOP will likely have changed significantly following the coming disaster for them

Not if the lesson they take from the loss is that McCain departed too far from the beliefs of the Republican base by, for example, accepting the existence of climate chance and not bashing immigrants.

Although I suppose that assumes that if new voters move into states like Texas, Arizona and Florida that these voters are necessarily going to lean GOP as well. Is living in a particular state what causes people to vote a certain way? It can be argued that being born, raised and educated in a particular state will have a strong effect, but simply moving there? I think of a state like Florida, where as it has grown over the past 20 years has become increasingly a swing state because the voters who were moving there were swing voters. Something similar seems to be happening in states like Colorado and Virginia. I also notice that some of the states that are experiencing out-migration - Iowa, Michigan, Pennsylvania - have seen dwindling Democratic margins in the last couple of presidential elections. Perhaps more Democratic-leaning independents are moving from these states to the South and South-West. Just something to consider.

somebody: "the GOP will likely have changed significantly following the coming disaster for them."

i wonder about that. the congressional gop had a disaster in 2006 and decided the answer was to act MORE conservative. didn't seem to learn the lesson then.....

Not if the lesson they take from the loss is that McCain departed too far from the beliefs of the Republican base by, for example, accepting the existence of climate chance and not bashing immigrants.

Posted by KCinDC | June 8, 2008 2:39 PM

Sure, that's possible. But I am referring also to the large losses they are likely to experience in the Senate and House. McCain, at least to me, at least has a decent chance of winning the presidency. The legislators look doomed.

Obama is going to crush McCain. It won't be close even if those EC votes were reallocated based on current population. The world can change a great deal in 5 months. My take? Gas is going to be $5 by election day and the economy will be in the tank. Americans will, correctly, see that energy is by far the single most important issue facing the country, oh, for the next generation. McCain wants to run on terrorism and national security, and by November oil and energy will be seen as the most important national security issue. McCain doesn't stand a chance. Enough American will go into the voting booth thinking, "Who cares about Al-Qaeda? We need to do something about energy now. Why is McCain going on and on about terrorism? Who cares if Iraq falls into chaos as long as the oil keeps flowing. Who cares if Al-Qaeda sets up base in Iraq?" And Obama will beat McCain walking away.

Speculation about 2012 is laughable. The global economy will look nothing like it does today.

** the number of Electors is based on population counts, not counts of registered voters **

I assume that a lot of the population growth in the Southwest is not due to Republican 'large families' increasing the birth rate, or to people relocating from other states, but from IMMIGRATION.

This means that while these states will count for more after the 2010 census, many of the people populating these states are non-citizens, and therefore WILL NOT be voting.

An important dataset to find would be the # of registered voters in the states before and after the electoral college adjustments. That might tell a more complete story.


If this line of reasoning holds, then many of the people contributing to electoral college increases in the Southwest also have a natural affinity for the pro-immigrant Democratic party.

So, it seems like a big part of the long-term strategy for Democrats should be to ENCOURAGE naturalization among immigrants, and voter registration of the children of immigrants.

For that matter, the current key Republican demographics, including 'large family' white evangelicals, are eroding much faster than Democratic demographics.

So Nate's narrow point that the 2000 census hurts less than a 2007 census would hurt is all fine and good, but it doesn't really address the question of why we have the EC in the first place. If we went to a national popular vote method then it wouldn't matter that I live in Atlanta and therefore my preference and those of 90% of the people who live without 30 miles of me - hundreds of thousands of people - don't really matter.

Following up on what I said above, here is some data on the make-up of the population in Arizona from Pew Hispanic Center: http://pewhispanic.org/files/factsheets/37.pdf

Using the data from Table 3 of that document:

The population in Arizona grew by just over 1 million from 2000-2006 (1,034,000). Of those who arrived, 25% are foreign born. Furthermore, 50% are Hispanic, which includes many foreign-born parents with native-born children (the report says half of native-born Hispanics in Arizona are under age 16).

Democrats tend to be favored pretty heavily by Hispanics, which means that to have as many of these 500,000 people naturalized and registered to vote as possible would probably start putting Arizona in much more secure Democratic territory.

The other near-50% of the growth in Arizona is from native-born non-Hispanics. The real question here is how Republican or Democratic leaning are these people, and how many of them vote...

Mr Alex voiced one reaction that I had to the original post, that many areas of rapid growth and in-migration are attracting foreign immigration. In general this is good for Dems altho special cases exist; the south-Florida Cuban community has been solid GOP and Vietnamese seem also to vote Repub. Still, the in-migration to Texas in particular seems to me to be heavily Hispanic. (Since 'google-posters' seem to have a bad press here I didn't check on that.) And given the Right's xenophobic public spokesmen THAT has to be good for Dems.

Another thing to remember about immigrating, you arrive in a new and unfamiliar place where it is your task to fit in. Political views might well change--altho not for any of us here who have fairly deeply-thought-out convictions--but most people would find themselves forming new opinions.

And those who do not change political opinions find themselves without the infrastructure that channels opinions into candidates and legislation. Think of the hypothetical Ohio Dem who is a new resident in Waco Texas. The slant of local media and the assumptions of neighbors and co-workers, not to mention the power of his new Church to mold opinions, might be resisted but where does he turn to get active in Dem/Liberal campaigns? Probably none is to be found. (I picked Waco at random; hope I'm not being negative toward what liberals may be there, btw.) Local politics in vast swaths of America is essentially one-party politics controlled by local elites.

Another reaction: recent Pew Poll results gave Obama and generic Dems big leads in 'Exurbs' and 'Suburbs'--usually thought of as 'growth' areas. Repubs only lead in 'rural' spots which is NOT 'high growth' areas. Maybe that's just a gift to Dems from the Bush Admnistration.

Given the death spiral that the Republicans are in, there is no reason to believe that their candidate in 2012 will be the least bit competative.

It is much more likely that the Democratic Primaries in 2016 will be the next competative election for president. If progressives are really interested in fair voting, maybe the Democratic primaries should be restructured so that Iowa and New Hampshire do not end up electing the president in 2016 and leaving the rest of the U.S. the job of rubber stamping their Democratic primary choice during the general election.

Re: the south-Florida Cuban community has been solid GOP and Vietnamese seem also to vote Repub.

Don't know about the Vietnamese, but support for the GOP is eroding among Cubans. Bush's Cuban policy has been too harsh for many in S Florida, since he has limited their ability to visit relatives or send monetary gifts home. In 2006 one S Florida GOP congressman (the long-serving Clay Shaw) was sent packing; it's possible that others may be this year too.

The size of the House needs to be increased. It was never intended to be a Senate Lite. It would knock down the cost of elections and the excessive electoral college weighting of low population states.

I always thought the GOP had an advantage in the Electoral College, but John Kerry lost the 2004 popular vote decisively, but still almost won in the Electoral College.

Clearly, there's a lot of randomness in the system that can benefit or hurt either party.

The capping of the House at 435 means that reallocation of House districts is an incredibly blunt instrument that makes a vote count proportionately less in larger states.

(The best bit of election strategy the Democrats could do? Get half a million people to move from California to Wyoming or Montana. Or New Orleans. After all, the GOP made the most of dispersing Louisiana Democrats after Katrina.)


Comments closed June 22, 2008.

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