Matthew Yglesias (June 05, 2008)

The Sandinistas and Zapatistas aren't girly, they're Spanish-speakers.

Yabbut "fashionista" is girly, and that may be the most common English-based "ista" word.

Posted by Matt Weiner | June 5, 2008 11:26 AM

Exactly. Likewise, look at how Spanish-speakers now-a-days are trying to feminize the clearly masculine word for hand, "mano", which ends in "o", by using the feminine article "la". Jerks.

Posted by El Cid | June 5, 2008 11:28 AM

I think this isn't so much a Spanish-language thing as a Colbert thing. He loves to add "-ista" to words to make them sinister.

Posted by minderbender | June 5, 2008 11:28 AM

Clintonite sounds like a disease (no comment) and I use Clintonistas because I thought it sounded much better and, yes, it has a feminine flavor but why is that a problem ?
Last time I checked Hillary has proudly talked at length about her and her female supporters in the past three months.
The fact that acknowledging that Hillary's world and base is female - although not exclusively - is considered threatening tells more about Dana than it does about those who use the word.

Posted by Benjamin | June 5, 2008 11:30 AM

The point of "Clintonista" isn't to make them sound girly, it's to vaguely smear them by association with ideological zealotry, with overtones of cultishness. Believers in the One True Cause.

Posted by guyx | June 5, 2008 11:30 AM

Don't you think the point is to try to give her a slightly sinister, pinko image? All of the "istas" I can think of are leftists with images that are problematic at best: Fidelistas, Sandinistas, Chavezistas.

Posted by Mister Go | June 5, 2008 11:30 AM

I'm seconding Mister Go, this seems to me to be about associating Clinton with communism.

- g

Posted by G | June 5, 2008 11:36 AM

Clintonista is from the '90s, and it's supposed to be mild insult. It's just that in 2008, everyone seems to have forgotten the Sandinistas so Dana Goldstein knows it's an insult, but can't remember how it's insulting.

By the way, it's actually been used for so long that Clinton supporters sometimes use it to describe themselves, not knowing it's supposed to be an insult.

Posted by Kiril | June 5, 2008 11:37 AM

It also rolls off the tongue nicely, much like "Obamatons."

Posted by TheF79 | June 5, 2008 11:40 AM

I'm terrified of the fashonistas who will make me abandon my short sleeved button up shirt with a tie in the name of "not looking completely ridiculous".

Posted by lfv | June 5, 2008 11:41 AM

I've always preferred the term "Clintonidiot", especially when Tim K's around.

Posted by Jake | June 5, 2008 11:42 AM

everyone seems to have forgotten the Sandinistas

"Sandinista" is the name of perhaps the greatest rock album of all time (The Clash). How could people forget so soon?

Posted by Jim W | June 5, 2008 11:47 AM

I'm thirding Mr Go and G. At least, that's where my mind went. And seconding Kiril at the same time.

I've noticed that a side effect of the Clinton candidacy has been to cause some rethinking about the intersection of language and gender. And while at times it has led people to jump at shadows, I think on the whole this reevaluation has been kind of refreshing.

Posted by Royko | June 5, 2008 11:51 AM

Kiril is right. Clintonista began in the 90's as a derogatory term used by the right.

Posted by Doug | June 5, 2008 11:53 AM

Jim W, better than the debut (either version) or London Calling? And I like the Mose Allison cover and the Timon Dogg song -- not side six so much.

Posted by Matt Weiner | June 5, 2008 11:54 AM

Descriptive:
Clintonist/Trotskyist/Bushist

Insulting:
Clintonite/Trotskyite/Bushbot

Creative:
Clintonista

Posted by Comment | June 5, 2008 11:56 AM

I think the most common "ista" these days is "barista" - worker at a coffeebar like Starbucks, a.k.a. coffee jerk. It sounds hippish and trendoid.

Posted by M. Peachbush | June 5, 2008 11:56 AM

The point of "Clintonista" isn't to make them sound girly, it's to vaguely smear them by association with ideological zealotry, with overtones of cultishness.

Yes, this is what I always thought. Like Obamaniac or Obamabot. Though via 'fashionista' it has probably also acquired some feminine undertones (though that term also carries connotations of expertise or 'cutting-edgeness', which are not especially negative). In short, I think Dana and guyx are each about half right.

I don't think 'Clintonite' would have sounded right. To me it's too tightly associated with loyalists of Bill, and over time was increasingly uttered with a sneer by many progressives. Something new had to emerge and Clintonista, I'd say, is only minimally offensive.

Posted by Ryan | June 5, 2008 12:00 PM

You're wrong, Matt. This term clearly refers to "E Plebmnista". People who use "Clintonista" want you to believe that the Clintons are Yangs.

Posted by Pesto | June 5, 2008 12:00 PM

re Barista - When that tough guy republican Tucker Carlson really wants to 'bitch' Barack
Obama supporters - he calls them all "baristas."

The blacks, the bookish, the baristas, and the bolshelviks are supporting Obama - according to Tucker.

Posted by Comment | June 5, 2008 12:06 PM

'scuse me, but how does it make the word 'threatening'?

Posted by M | June 5, 2008 12:08 PM

I think that Obamanista may be insulting in a way that would reach those with an affinity for Biblical-sounding language.

- g

Posted by G | June 5, 2008 12:09 PM

Mister Go,

The word is 'Chavista' not 'Chavezista', and even if Chavez name wasn't shortened, a 'c' would be subsituted for the 'z', as in 'Somoza" --> 'Somocista'. For that matter, both Somocistas and Franquistas (and very arguably, Peronistas) were on the right.

Posted by Hector | June 5, 2008 12:13 PM

Kiril has it right. Clintonista as a term originated in the 90s. I don't recall if it was originally meant as an insult, but I do clearly remember the term being used by Rush Limbaugh. During this campaign I have seen many Clinton supporters apply the term to themselves; I've seen a few object to its use as well. Strangely, they seemed as unaware as Dana regarding the word's roots.

Posted by tessellated | June 5, 2008 12:14 PM

Police
Policia
Polizei

- All three have a different feel

Posted by Comment | June 5, 2008 12:15 PM

It's amazing how meaning and nuance is lost the longer a term is used. Clintonista was absolutely derogatory in the 90's. It was used by Limbaugh et al to paint the Clintons and their supporters as leftist and radical. With the passage of time that inference has left the collective consciousness, and only old guys like me can recall the original intent of the term.

A similar generation gap became apparent with the "pimped out" comment earlier in the campaign. Generally speaking, folks over 40 thought it was sexist and cruel, while folks under 40 didn't see any issue at all. Funny how language works.

Posted by AJ | June 5, 2008 12:16 PM

Guamical Obamacals = Obama supporters from Guam.

Posted by Comment | June 5, 2008 12:18 PM

Guess what? There's an academic journal article from 1995 called Spanish Influence on English Word-Formation: The Suffix -Ista. The link takes you to a brief intro page -- the journal doesn't seem to be available for free online.

My first recollection of -ista in American politics wasn't with the Clintons, but with H. Ross Perot. His supporters were called "Petoristas" as a pun on "Peronista", and because they seemed to love him as much as Juan and Evita's supporters loved them (plus, with promises to militarize black neighborhoods he could sound vaguely authoritarian at times).

I'm almost certain that "Perotista" preceded "Clintonista". If American Speech were free, we could all check for sure.

Posted by Pesto | June 5, 2008 12:19 PM

re Perot (Pesto-ronians)

Perot was a "Texas Billionaire" - not just a billionaire.

But there are other billionaires from Texas that were not called "Texas Billionares"

Sandanista
Sandanaire

Posted by Comment | June 5, 2008 12:23 PM

Tessellated is right. The term "Clintonista" was mainly used in the 90's by right-wingers. Coinages ending in "ista" were generally used back then by the right to suggest that their targets were radical leftists, and they were fairly self-consciously derived from "Sandinista". The ending has gravitated since then over to the other side with the now-common famous "fashionista", which sounds like "fascista", and suggests the target is an authoritarian or fascist about clothing styles. My sense is that "Clintonista" became popular directly because of the popularity of terms like "fashionista", and because it conveyed the idea that some Clinton supporters were extremely aggressive, domineering, bullying personalities - not that they were girly.

Posted by Dan Kervick | June 5, 2008 12:30 PM

Actually, maybe Clinton's political skills deserted her because she was exposed to a piece of clintonite. Those dastardly Obamabots, they stop at nothing!

Posted by Steve LaBonne | June 5, 2008 12:45 PM

The reason Clintonista is an apt description is because Clinton's followers are specifically followers of Clinton, rather than followers of any other ideology she represents. This is why Clintonistas reject Obama -- because he is not Clinton.

Posted by neil | June 5, 2008 12:47 PM

My followers were referred to as Pinochetistas. Aprende castellano, idiota!

Aii! Es muy caliente aqui. Baja el calor, Mefistófeles!

Posted by Augusto Pinochet | June 5, 2008 12:49 PM

The reason Clintonista is an apt description is because Clinton's followers are specifically followers of Clinton, rather than followers of any other ideology she represents. This is why Clintonistas reject Obama -- because he is not Clinton.

Posted by neil | June 5, 2008 12:50 PM

Dana has shaky political instincts if she thinks "Clintonite" sounds cool.

There are plenty of insults that end in -ite

Posted by Comment | June 5, 2008 12:51 PM

Well, I'm an old fart too, and while I sort of remember Rush et al using "Clintonista" as a pejorative, very quickly it was picked up by many of us on the left, and applied to ourselves with pride. At the time, I remember thinking that it was intended to link us somehow to the Sandinistas.... but after Reagan and Iran Contra, that didn't seem to be such a bad thing, either.

I have noticed how touchy the Hillary folks are about it now, but then, they're touchy about everything, it seems.

Posted by B.W. Lilly | June 5, 2008 12:54 PM

The Clintonite here is obviously outraged by being labeled a "Clintonista" --she even even has a song about how terrible it all is...

Posted by Thomas Allen | June 5, 2008 12:56 PM

Clintinista does sound a bit Bolshy, does it not? Nevertheless, time has drained it of the venom that right injected in it.

The Apotheosis of Barack Obama (odd number of syllables helps) has altered the conceptual framework that meme-workers toil upon.

Posted by Comment | June 5, 2008 12:58 PM

Estimado Senador Pinochet: 'Hace calor', no?

Posted by El Cid | June 5, 2008 12:59 PM

Clintinista does sound a bit Bolshy, does it not? Nevertheless, time has drained it of the venom that right injected in it.

The Apotheosis of Barack Obama (odd number of syllables helps) has altered the conceptual framework that meme-workers toil upon.

Posted by Comment | June 5, 2008 1:01 PM

No, I believe that the General is referring to Satan's predilections towards dictators as illustrated in South Park. The Dark Lord has him all hot and bothered, you see -- he can be such a tease...

Posted by neil | June 5, 2008 1:02 PM

Clintinista does sound a bit Bolshy, does it not? Nevertheless, time has drained it of the venom that right injected in it.

The Apotheosis of Barack Obama (odd number of syllables helps) has altered the conceptual framework that meme-workers toil upon.

Posted by Comment | June 5, 2008 1:03 PM

For the record, Spanish words ending in "ista" are masculine, unless they refer specifically to a female or an all-female group. In a mixed-sex group like "supporters of Hillary Clinton," Los Clintonistas is masculine, not girly.

Posted by Burro Hall | June 5, 2008 1:07 PM

Really, it's just a matter of literal correctness. The suffix -ite means "one connected with" or "inhabitant of," making it more appropriate for people who are actually members of Hillary's inner circle. The suffix -ist means "one who believes in" which is obviously a more appropriate description of those devotees of Hillary who are nonetheless not connected to the candidate beyond being fans. And since this long primary campaign has cast a fair bit of light on people whose commitment to the Clintons goes farther than their commitment to the party or ideology she represents, it's an entirely appropriate term.

Posted by neil | June 5, 2008 1:08 PM

Neil tiene razon. Estoy quemando!

Posted by Augusto Pinochet | June 5, 2008 1:24 PM

Python programmers, primarily male as in most computing groups, commonly refer to themselves as "Pythonistas":

http://www.google.com/search?q=pythonista

Posted by wcyee | June 5, 2008 1:39 PM

On lower ends of the right wing media food chain, it's considered a clever insult to call Obama "Barry."

Apparently - many think "Barry" is like an allusion to secret knowlege of his hidden black radicalism.

They think he has kept "Barry" a secret name from his past - unaware that he has written about it.

Posted by Comment | June 5, 2008 1:44 PM

Pesto -- thanks for the link to interesting article! You can find what seems to be an expanded version of the same material at Google Books search here, but I've already written a lot of the comment so I'll summarize for those who lack access to the journal.

A lot of the article is about the difference between -ista and -ist; you find "Peronist" as well as "Peronista" in English, but you never find "Sandinist."

For American political figures, Rodriguez Gonzalez says that Perot's "involvement in fringe politics, and his outspoken manner" led to derision that may have contributed to the coining of "Perotista"; whereas "Perotist" was used by Perot's own supporters, though "Perotista" came to be adopted in neutral circles. Weirdly, the first use seems to be "Evanista" about Arizona clown Evan Mecham in 1990 -- who knew?

But Clintonista was also used derogatorily in 1992; Rodriguez Gonzalez cites this 1992 New York Times editorial, which says "" Clintonista, though sometimes used neutrally, was the favorite of the Bush camp, implying as it does bomb-throwing Latin leftists."

(The same article says, "Clintonite sounds neutral yet ambiguous. Does it refer to a person, or to some obscure semi-precious stone used in Navajo jewelry?")

Posted by Matt Weiner | June 5, 2008 2:08 PM

Clintonista just sounded less insulting in the post cold war era

It also sounded a whiff ironical because Clinton was the more pro Wall Street President since Hoover.

So the Clintonistas felt comfortable calling themselves that or being called that.

Dana is dada if she thinks Clintonite sounds neutral or cool. It sounds like a fungus.

Posted by Comment | June 5, 2008 2:16 PM

Clintonista just sounded less insulting in the post cold war era

It also sounded a whiff ironical because Clinton was the more pro Wall Street President since Hoover.

So the Clintonistas felt comfortable calling themselves that or being called that.

Dana is dada if she thinks Clintonite sounds neutral or cool. It sounds like a fungus.

Posted by Comment | June 5, 2008 2:19 PM

This is dumb. I've heard Clinton people called "Clintonistas" since the 90s. It's obviosly a play on Sandinista, and a kind of funny one at that. Ms. Goldstein is showing her age with this one.

Posted by trza | June 5, 2008 3:22 PM

I prefer to use, "Clintonoids."

Posted by Michael Jaworsky | June 5, 2008 6:36 PM

I prefer to use, "Clintonoids."

Posted by Michael Jaworsky | June 5, 2008 6:39 PM

Hmmm, I've never heard any other slang name for Clinton supporters but "Clintonistas". But then again, I did come of age politically in the 1990's.

Posted by Raindog | June 6, 2008 12:50 AM

¡si se puede!

I trust you meant Sí se puede, 'Yes it can be done', as opposed to the rather ambivalent 'If it can be done'.

Posted by beowulf | June 6, 2008 1:32 AM