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Phase II, Part II

06 Jun 2008 12:13 pm

One addendum to yesterday's release from Jay Rockefeller about the administration's misuse of intelligence before the war is to say that it sure would have been nice for Rockefeller to have been so on the ball about this stuff before the war. Instead, in a floor speech explaining his decision to vote "yes" on the AUMF resolution, he gave us this:

There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years. And that may happen sooner if he can obtain access to enriched uranium from foreign sources -- something that is not that difficult in the current world. We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction.

When Saddam Hussein obtains nuclear capabilities, the constraints he feels will diminish dramatically, and the risk to America’s homeland, as well as to America’s allies, will increase even more dramatically. Our existing policies to contain or counter Saddam will become irrelevant. [...]

But this isn’t just a future threat. Saddam’s existing biological and chemical weapons capabilities pose a very real threat to America, now. Saddam has used chemical weapons before, both against Iraq’s enemies and against his own people. He is working to develop delivery systems like missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles that could bring these deadly weapons against U.S. forces and U.S. facilities in the Middle East.

And he could make those weapons available to many terrorist groups which have contact with his government, and those groups could bring those weapons into the U.S. and unleash a devastating attack against our citizens. I fear that greatly.

It's much easier for the president to mislead people when the erstwhile opposition party is doing more to echo his rhetoric than to debunk it.

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Comments (17)

Yo, Matt. "Erstwhile" doesn't mean "so-called." It means "former."

Well, Rockefeller could have done that -- but AIPAC didn't think it was "good for Israel".

Actually, the Democratic Chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence in 2002 was Bob Graham.

And he tried to warn us that the Bush story was a con. Everybody in COngress except for Nancy Pelosi and Diane Feinstein avoided him with an embarrassed silence and Senator Graham entered retirement shortly thereafter.

Jay Rockefeller is a living example of regression toward the mean; he has been utterly ineffectual as a senator since the day he was first elected. At least Ben Nelson votes out of (misguided) principle; Jay is just incompetent.

Yo, Matt. "Erstwhile" doesn't mean "so-called." It means "former."

This is a good post by Matt. I heard Jim Angle of Fox News, always reliable for RNC talking points, asked on NPR this morning about the second phase report, and he brought exactly this point up-- that Democrats spouted the falsehoods too. (Anne Kornblut of the Washington Post pointed out that Obama, however, is helped by the report because he didn't do that.)

So Rockefeller and other Democrats gave the Republicans talking points to use against any exposure of pre-war lies. Thanks guys.

I would go so far as to say that anybody tainted by Iraq needs to be excluded from the next administration.

It may be tough, but a "No" vote (or no vote at all) on the AUMF should be a basic vetting point for Obama's choice of Vice President or key cabinet positions with foreign policy or intelligence responsibilities (State, Homeland Security, etc).

Yo, Egypt Steve. In the sentence in question, "former" works as well as "so-called."

As in, '...the former opposition party.'

But erstwhile seems to add the spice needed to say that the party no longer behaves, or didn't behave like an opposition party when it counted.

George W. Bush LIED. The statements were false and he knew they were false. His LIES were convincing enough to fool a lot of good people into supporting his war: John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, Matt Yglesias, and Jay Rockefeller.

Now I'm pretty damn angry about being lied to by George W. Bush, and I didn't even have to vote to send my coworker's husband to Iraq.

So I think it'd be kind of nice of Rockefeller to stop pussyfooting around. He needs to break the taboo, call the President a liar, and quit worrying so much whether the Wall Street Journal editorial page thinks he's a nice person.

Literary, lol.

erstwhile, adv. and a.
[f. erst + while adv. (The stress is variable.)]
A. adv. Some while ago, formerly. arch. Also
† 'erstwhiles
[see whiles], in same sense.
1569 Spenser Sonn. ix. in Van der Noodt’s Theatre for Worldlings, Which erstwhile [later edd. earst] so pleasaunt scent did yelde.
1584 R. Scot Discov. Witchcr. iii. xix. 56 They resist the truth erstwhile by them professed.
1599 Sandys Europæ Spec. (1632) 184 Those very same minds, wherein they were erst-whiles enshrined with all devotion.
1624 Gataker Transubst. 209 Which our adversarie also Earstwhiles confessed.
1662 Glanvill Lux Orient. 180 Those thick and clammy vapours which erstwhile ascended in such vast measures..must..descend again.
1881 A. J. Duffield Don Quix. II. 407 During that year the clouds erstwhile had withheld their dew from the earth.
B. adj. = former. (Cf. whilom.) literary.
1903 ‘A. McNeill’ Egregious English iii. 31 The erstwhile portly mother of daughters.
1909 Westm. Gaz. 21 Aug. 13/1 A tottering pleasure-resort, whose erstwhile patrons look more longingly every year at the pretty and easily reached villages of Normandy and Brittany.
1925 L. Housman Odd Pairs i. 24 Her erstwhile rival.

"...his decision to vote "yes" on the AUMF resolution..."

Well then, isn't he and the rest of Congress lucky that no AUMF will have to be passed in order to go to war with Iran, thanks to Pelosi caving in (again) to AIPAC.

Great post. It might also be helpful to post the text of the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, written by Democrat Bob Kerry and signed by Bill Clinton, who also bombed the shit out of Iraq that year.

Anyone who thinks the invasion of Iraq was just about "Bush lies" is either woefully ignorant, blinkered by partisanship, or both. We went to war in Iraq in 1991 and over the next twelve years, in spite of killing about a million Iraqis, deploying hundreds of thousands of military personnel, and spending hundreds of billions of dollars, it was still unresolved in 2003. Post 9/11 leaving an overt enemy state in violation of the ceasefire agreement sitting on the key real estate in the region producing most of the terrorism and most of the oil was simply a non-starter. That's why the invasion, like most of our decades-long policy towards Iraq, was a bi-partisan affair.

Notice that the report uses the term "Bush knew or should have known." Leaving Bush to say I didn't know, perhaps I should have known, but I didn't know, therefore I didn't lie, because lying means I knew and "intended" to say something I knew, but I didn't know. Maybe I should have known, but I didn't, just like the Dem. Senators including HRC who didn't take the time to read the classified NIE showing what the intelligence agencies really thought, (unforgiveable) only made available to the Senate. So Bush didn't know because he was let down by his advisors and staff who didn't inform him, guys like John Poindexter who was pardoned by GHWB, and .... Oh no, that was the guy who failed to pass the information up to RWR so he could say he didn't know and those under him let him down.

Jim--
This is a problem of what historians call anachronism. It's really easy to see what you "should have known" in retrospect. The reality of a president, senator, ceo, or most any other important decision-maker is having to pick the particularly important items from the hurricane-driven junkyard full of items flying in your face. Unsurprisingly, they usually turn out to be the items that support your preconceptions.

For those opposed to the invasion, it was easy to pick out lots of items that at the time didn't seem particularly compelling to people who had been dealing with a more-or-less continuous war in the Persian Gulf for over a decade, and who were simultaneously presented with other items that seemed a lot more significant. From the vantage point of 2008, they look really obvious.

But then, if we'd failed to pull the trigger in 2003 we'd most likely now be seeing a whole different set of obvious items proving what a catastrophic blunder it was to leave Saddam Hussein the dictator of a crucial state.

You're a moronic right wing troll, Powell. STFU.

"That's why the invasion, like most of our decades-long policy towards Iraq, was a bi-partisan affair."

Funny, that's not what they said at the time. Why is the rationale different from what the Bush Administration gave Congress and the American people at the time? Why are you trying to revise history, powell?

"But then, if we'd failed to pull the trigger in 2003 we'd most likely now be seeing a whole different set of obvious items proving what a catastrophic blunder it was to leave Saddam Hussein the dictator of a crucial state."

robert powell dreams things that never were and asks "why not?"

Smarter trolls, please.

Re R Powell's comment "The reality of a president, senator, ceo, or most any other important decision-maker is having to pick the particularly important items from the hurricane-driven junkyard full of items flying in your face. Unsurprisingly, they usually turn out to be the items that support your preconceptions."
-------------
This is utter bullshit.

We have seen Bush LIE to the American people repeatedly.

First, when he said the Sept 11 attack occurred "because they hate our freedom". Even though our own news archives had past Bin LAden interviews giving his 3 reasons for Al Qaeda's jihad.

Second, when his National Security Advisor had the 5 TV networks SHUT DOWN any broadcast of Bin Laden's speechs -- so that they American people would NOT find out WHY Sept 11 occurred. And justified that by saying it would keep Bin LAden from signaling Al Qaeda cells -- something anyone who has ever been in intelligence would know was a deliberate lie.

Third, when Bush's Republican deputies on the 911 Commission REFUSED to allow any look at WHY the Sept 11 attack occurred. As Harvard historian and consultant to the Commission, Ernest May, admitted several months after release of the Commission report.

And anyone interested in the NATIONAL DEFENSE --as opposed to grabbing oil wells for Exxon -- would have done the same work as the Iraq Commission. I.E, READ THE FUCKING DISSENTS in the NIE and resolve them.

The fucking CABAL that lied to this country before the war, during the war, and is still lying as the war continues is a far greater threat to this country than Al Qaeda.


If naming the facts makes you a "troll", I'm glad to be one. You guys need to use the dictionary--check "lie", which is not defined as "saying something Don Williams doesn't agree with"; and "bipartisan", which usually has to do with recorded votes in Congress, not what Joel heard someone say on TV.

Lemmings.


Comments closed June 20, 2008.

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