It's the end of the Flip Saunders era in Detroit. I understand the Pistons' thinking here, but given that the guy only had one year left on his contract I'm sort of wondering who's the better coach Detroit thinks they're going to sign this offseason. If Mike D'Antoni were still in play or something (I envision him using Rasheed Wallace primarily as a Euro-style shooting center) that would be one thing, but what's the next move here? To me, at least, it's not as if there's been some huge stretch of egregious coaching errors holding the team back.
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Saunders Sacked
03 Jun 2008 11:56 am
Comments (28)
This isn't all that dramatic. BECAUSE he was in the last year of his contract, Detroit had to either extend Saunders or let him go. It'd be really tough to motivate a team (particularly a team known to have motivation issues) if you're a lame duck. And Dumars had to make the decision right away, because other possible candidates may commit to jobs elsewhere.
Pistons owner Bill Davidson is a brilliant businessman and a good guy but he's not very fond of paying people NOT to work for him so my guess is the Pistons next coach will be Assistant Coach Michael Curry, who will come cheaper at first then an established coach.
From Pistons.com (the official Pistons blog):
Though it would normally seem risky to hire a first-time head coach – especially one with just one year as an assistant under his belt – as the leader of a title-contending team, Curry would assume the job under difference circumstances. Not only is he deeply respected by the current players – Curry, as an NBA role player, rose to president of the Players Association – but Curry is eminently steeped in Pistons culture.
Michael Curry was also the Vice President of Basketball Operations for the NBA. He's got the same makeup of a Phil Jackson or Pat Riley in terms of his playing record (scrappy overachiever) and a more leadership experience then either of those guys to start.
The Little General? Avery Johnson.
"Pistons owner Bill Davidson is a brilliant businessman and a good guy but he's not very fond of paying people NOT to work for him"
That, right there, explains it all. Everyone wanted Saunders back--except the owner, who can be pretty mercurial when it comes to coaches. Rick Carlisle made this team a contender but Davidson didn't like his suits, or the way he parked his car, or who knows what (even to this day) so he had to go.
I sure hope this doesn't mean they are done reworking this team. If they don't shake up their roster as well--for instance, by replacing Mister Six Technical Fouls with someone who actually wants to do what it takes to win--they will be right back here in a year's time.
Just to clarify, the Pistons have to pay the fired Flip Saunders this year so it's unlikely that Pistons ownership is going to want to pay big money for a big name coach.
Flip is a bad coach, but at least this year the team didn't underachieve.
I refuse to believe that going from Saunders go Johnson would be any type of improvement. I don't know much about Michael Curry, but you might as well give a new guy a chance.
go=to
I wonder if Laimbeer will be considered.
Matt, you think that the pistons want to keep 'sheed around? I thought he played his way out of detroit in the last couple of games against boston.
One of the guys at work earlier said there was talk about a major trade....sheed + prince + someone like amir johnson for carmello anthony + camby.
Oh, yes, please let the Pistons choose Johnson over Curry. Pretty pretty please.
Notorious P.A.T. - It's hard to fault Davidson for canning Rick Carlisle. They won a championship with the guy that replaced him (Larry Brown) against a Lakers team with Kobe, Shaq, Gary Payton, and Karl Malone. That's not half bad.
Davidson also won a Stanley Cup as owner of the Tampa Bay Lightning and a WNBA championship as owner of the Detroit Shock.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Davidson
Saunders is not a terrific coach, but all the better coaches are in the Western Conference. Doc Rivers is worse than him.
BTW - further to the point that Flip is a bad coach, his teams underachieved in 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007. (By underachieve, I mean lose a playoff series even though the team has home court advantage, or, with respect to 2005, be under .500 even though the team retained all the best players from the team that had the best record in the conference the prior year).
Sure, any coach can have an underachieving team once in a while, but if the coach's team consistently underacheives, it's fair to say the coach is not good.
only the rarest of coaches get more out of the material than is there: i looked at detroit the last couple of years and felt that there was a very good but not great team that would be doing extremely well to get past the conference finals.
in short, what the pistons need is one more player (either through internal development or free agency); without that additional player, god is unlikely to coach the pistons to a title.
i'm no flip apologist but the wolves didn't underachieve against the lakers in the 2004 conference finals. they played without an injured sam cassell, who was as central to the team's success that year as kg.
Well, yeah, [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Shammgod]God[/url] hasn't even started a coaching career yet.
seems like Avery Johnson would be a good fit, defensive minded-rah rah kinda coach.
I figure the Pistons fired Flip to push the Bulls into paying too much for Doug Collins.
I'm neutral on Saunders, but it tortures reality to say that the 2003 Timberwolves roster "underachieved" because they won one more game than the 2003 Lakers roster in the regular season, and then lost to a Lakers roster, which still had a pretty damned good Shaq, in the playoffs. Anybody who would've wagered large funds on the 2003 Timeberwolves beating the 2003 Lakers, regardless of coaching, over seven games, would've been very foolish. It is far more accurate to say that the Lakers underachieved in the regular season, in good part due to Shaq missing fifteen games, and that the Timberwolves overachieved in the regular season.
The Pistons lost to the Celtics this year largely because the Pistons' front court was completely outclassed, with much of that criticism directed at Rasheed Wallace. It would also torture reality to say that Saunders was markedly worse than anyone else has been in regards to coaching Wallace effectively.
It would also torture reality to say that Saunders was markedly worse than anyone else has been in regards to coaching Wallace effectively.
This is my favorite observation on this matter thus far.
Cleveland won four games in a row in last season's ECF by running the same play on 386 consecutive possessions without the Pistons adjusting to it. (Numbers are approximate.) That is poor coaching, even against Lebron.
I tend to agree with the sentiment above that putting the Wolves failures on Saunders is in poor form since whatever blame Garnett doesn't deserve for never wanting the ball in key stretches and forcing their role players to win games should be allocated to McHale for costing the team multiple first round picks on a dumb-ass cheating scheme. Saunders only gets the crumbs for the mess in Minnesota.
It's sad that Sullivan rather than Yglesias directed me to this excellent argument made by Dumars (as told to Chris Orr) that the Pistons should represent the East in the Finals. Way to lose your fastball, Yglesias.
The lack of adjustment in the face of LeBron James' dominance last year is the most valid criticism of Saunders.
In regards to McHale and the Joe Smith fiasco, I suspect that the owner, Glen Taylor, may have been the major impetus behind it, and may have even overridden McHale's objection to it. Neither have ever discussed it openly, so I'm speculating, of course.
It's sad that Sullivan rather than Yglesias directed me to this excellent argument made by Dumars (as told to Chris Orr) that the Pistons should represent the East in the Finals. Way to lose your fastball, Yglesias.
This parable would make more sense if Hillary was, you know, mathematically eliminated like the Pistons are.
Orr's argument is more like the Celtics arguing that the series should be stopped after they won Game 5. I mean, it was pretty damned unlikely that the Pistons were going to come back and win both games 6 and 7. Much better for the Eastern Conference if the Pistons just dropped out after Game 5 to give the Celtics more time to rest up for the Lakers, right?
will, sometimes a player is just good enough to dominate any adjustment you try, although i only bother to comment because it gives me a chance to summon bill russell as a fact witness (and a chance to direct interested readers to russell's 1965 "the psych and my other tricks" recently posted online by SI):
There are exceptions all over the place, of course. Oscar Robertson for one. He won't move where I want him to. He takes one quick look at those long arms and he figures, "Now, now. He wants me to do something." So he stops short and shoots me to death from outside. Elgin Baylor is as bad. Sometimes worse.
Everybody in the league knows that Baylor—otherwise the complete player—can't move too well to his left. But in one moment of desperation in one of the playoffs I gave up trying to steer him left, and I let him come right. At the last minute I took one giant step sideways, and he ran smack into me and drew a foul for charging. I mean, it ain't exactly psychological, but you do what you can.
http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1077812/4/index.htm
Oh, I agree, howard, and certainly didn't mean it as a damning indictment of Saunders. I wasn't rooting for the Pistons, but I just remember watching James take the game over nearly single-handedly, and being surprised, for instance, that he didn't get one especially hard foul in the midst of it. It's hard to say how much Saunders should be held responsible, of course.
Comments closed June 17, 2008.
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Heads in the Sand
Larry Brown's been in Charlotte for five full weeks. I think he's ready for a change of scenery.
Posted by Gabriel | June 3, 2008 12:07 PM