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The Audacity of Hope

04 Jun 2008 09:43 am

The fact that Obama's had this kinda sorta wrapped up since March 5 has tended to obscure the fact that his primary victory has got to be the greatest upset in the history of American presidential politics. In retrospect, whatever happens looks obvious and somewhat inevitable, but back in the day all that was obvious was that Clinton had the party locked down. Obama's entire meteoric ascent from the State Senate to the cusp of the presidency is just a very, very, very unlikely story. And it's a story driven by the fact that unlike a lot of other promising young politicians, Obama's been consistently willing to take risks. In both his 2004 Senate campaign and his 2008 Presidential campaign, Obama would have to count as a longshot. And, indeed, he was a longshot in his failed challenge to Bobby Rush. A lot of "promising" guys horde their promise so jealously that they never manage to actually deliver. It took a good deal of luck for Obama to make it to the top of the pack, but nobody succeeds without some luck, and nobody gets lucky unless they're in the arena.

It's a fundamentally bold, hopeful brand of politics. And I think it's no coincidence that that theme's been at the center of his campaign. Relative to Clinton, you see two people with similar policy agendas. But Clinton comes from a school of politics that says liberalism can't really win on the questions of war and peace, identity and authenticity, crime and punishment. It says that we live in a fundamentally conservative nation, and that the savvy progressive politician kind of burrows in and tries to make the best of a bad situation. It's an attitude very much borne of the brutally difficult experience of organizing for McGovern in Texas and running for governor in Arkansas at the height of Reaganism. Relative to McCain, Obama thinks it's possible to accomplish things in the world. He thinks the United States faces a lot of serious international challenges, but doesn't see them as primarily driven by menacing and implacable foes. Obama thinks that a combination of visionary leadership and shrewd bargaining can greatly improve our ability to tackle key priorities without any great expenditure of our resources.

All in all, the pessimist in me sees it as an approach to politics designed to set us up for a hard fall when it fails. But in a deeper sense I find it incredibly appealing. To me, it's incredibly frustrating to hear that ideas "can't be done" not because they won't work, but because people know -- just know -- that they're not politically possible, even though they're things that have never been tried. I think almost every worthwhile accomplishment of progressive governance -- from the UN and NATO and the NPT to Medicare and Medicaid and Title I school aid to the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act to the ongoing feminist revolution that's completely transformed American society in a generation and a half with no sign of slowing down -- is the kind of thing that before it happened, a lot of people would have said that it couldn't happen. And of course sometimes the pessimists are right, but unless you sometimes assume they're wrong then nothing's ever going to happen.

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Comments (74)

But Clinton comes from a school of politics that says liberalism can't really win on the questions of war and peace, identity and authenticity, crime and punishment. It says that we live in a fundamentally conservative nation, and that the savvy progressive politician kind of burrows in and tries to make the best of a bad situation.

Hogan, at Lawyers Guns and Money, had an absolutely brilliant comment about this:

"Roy Blount Jr once said that before Carter, assembling a national ticket and platform for the Democrats was always a matter of, "Well, we've baked this good nourishing pie here, but now we've got to put some shit in it, because otherwise the South won't eat it." Carter looked like a shit-free pie that the South would have to eat because that's where he was baked.

"Clintonian triangulation is a weird inverse of that compulsion: the Republicans have convinced people to eat shit, so all we can do is try to put a little nourishment into that shit, rather than, say, convincing people that they don't have to keep eating shit."

All I know is, for the first time in a long time, I will be casting a vote FOR a presidential candidate instead of AGAINST another.

...but back in the day all that was obvious was that Clinton had the party locked down.

This was never obvious to me. I originally thought the idea of her winning the nomination seemed unlikely. I always thought Obama should have an edge due to his opposition to the Iraq war. It was only during the long months (late summer and fall of 2007?) in which Clinton's poll numbers continued to rise that I concluded that she was more likely to win, but I never thought she was a shoo-in.

Also, having just finished Obama's first book, I have to say that this does not seem like the kind of book or life story of someone who will end up becoming president. Maybe because its first-person, but you never get the impression from the book that Obama is a charismatic guy. He seems kind of ordinary, except that he's much more idealistic than the average person.

very insightful analysis. This is a true black swan moment, not only American political history but I dare to say in the history of of the world..

I somewhat agree, but I think it is also worth noting Obama is a very smart person who has studied politics carefully, and who has also practiced politics at every level. And for this campaign he found some other very smart and like-minded people to work with, and together they came up with a very comprehensive and methodical approach to winning the nomination.

So, sure, he had boldness and a little luck on his side, which are important factors. But he also had intelligence, experience, and careful planning. And as I believe Seneca once said, luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.

Horde. Heh-heh.

Obama's challenge is more than showing how he can get things done, he's facing an uphill battle over cultural identity.

My hope is that the press will shut the hell up about who they ordain to be a "regular" person, which is perhaps one of the most insidious forms of elitism itself. If Obama can figure out how to put that psychology behind us he will win.

At some level, I really have no idea what Matt is talking about.

I expect an Obama administration will have a more sane foreign policy and a more generous domestic policy agenda, but I don't see any reason to believe that there will be any bold initiatives.

Matt - maybe you can answer this - Why was Chris Matthews mocking Obama this morning and yesterday for "working with" Saul Alinsky.

Alinsky was left leader HRC knew, but he died in the early 70s.

Obama was pretty young and living no where near Chicago at the time.

He never worked with Alinsky

WTF is Chris Matthews talking about?

Is Matthews repeating some new GOP talking point?

He makes millions - he should start getting some facts right.

"Medicare and Medicaid and Title I school aid to the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act"

Matt may be right that progressives could have major accomplishments if only they'd just be more optimistic and take more risks. But I note that all the domestic accomplishments he lists are from 1964-1968, during Lyndon Johnson's presidency. And Johnson, from a conservative state, a man with a hawkish foreign policy, a back-room dealer rather than a charismatic leader, looks a lot more like Hillary than Obama.


What you won't hear from this campaign or this party is the kind of politics that uses religion as a wedge, and patriotism as a bludgeon.

That line jumped out at me last night, especially the emphasis on "or this party," but I wasn't sure why until this morning. Yeah, it's cool, he won, it's his party - but more importantly, the Democrats have a clear, bona-fide leader for the first time in eight years. Game on.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=wh9AC0jCGjY&feature=related

The prevalence of canned despair and/or sentimental cynicism ...

So many people just wishing and hoping for Obama to fall on his face. And not merely for his race.

It's an upset, but it's far from extraordinary, at least if we're looking from 2006 onward and not including his ascent to the Senate.

Hillary Clinton is such a polarizing figure that there has always been the potential for a strong candidate to emerge against her and win.

If you'd asked people in fall of '07 which candidate's victory would have been more of a miracle, Obama or McCain, everyone would have said McCain. In December '03, Kerry was also written off by everyone serious.

Truman over Dewey? Al D'Amato in 1980? How about Jim Webb over George Allen, for goodness sake, when Allen was the frontrunner for Bush's third term?

We can celebrate Obama's win today, and perspective will come later.

Obama scares his foes because they can't get a line on him. Look at the tactic: dredge up his associates. They're trying to turn Obama into The Invisible Man by keeping the electorate fascinated by someone else.

Comment,

Alinsky did indeed pass away before Obama could have worked with him. However, the community organizations Obama went to Chicago to work with were supposedly based on Alinsky's organizational theories, and apparently Obama was trained by people who were themselves trained at the organizing school Alinsky founded, the Industrial Areas Foundation.

Now I assume Matthews is trying to use Alinsky as some sort of radical bogeyman. But given the facts, what Obama might have learned (indirectly) from Alinsky appears to be more methodological than ideological.

And Johnson, from a conservative state, a man with a hawkish foreign policy, a back-room dealer rather than a charismatic leader, looks a lot more like Hillary than Obama.

If Hillary Clinton was actually a shade of a specter of Lyndon Johnson, I would have voted for her in a second. Your point is exactly in line with Matt's, namely that Hillary could be a Johnson, but instead decided to become a politician in the DLC tradition. She didn't try to become Johnson, and thus she'll never be Johnson. She didn't take the risk. Obama doesn't look much like Johnson, but he did risk a shitload to be President. That's a lot like Johnson.

"WTF is Chris Matthews talking about?

Is Matthews repeating some new GOP talking point?

He makes millions - he should start getting some facts right.

Posted by Comment"

Comment made a funny!

Relative to McCain, Obama thinks it's possible to accomplish things in the world. He thinks the United States faces a lot of serious international challenges, but doesn't see them as primarily driven by menacing and implacable foes.

From an outsider's perspective, of course, this is one of the most refreshing aspects of Obama's persona, his recognition - or at least the perceived recognition - that the 21st century global political order places tremendous limits on US action and even greater imperatives on US diplomacy.

But how, on the one hand, can Obama retreat to self-defeating populism when he campaigns in the rust belts and then, on the other hand, underline the complexities facing American foreign policy without seeming disingenuous?

DTM,

Thanks - Yeah, he was trying to make a pretty tenuous link sound solid.

Why?

Matthews said repeatedly that Obama actually "worked with" Alinsky. He
must be lying or he has screw loose.

But why? Matthews is supposed to be pro Obama - but he regularly makes factual errors about Obama that are damaging and get recycled onto those demented emails smears and then into the MSM by lazy reporters who watch his show.

Obama was 11 when Alinsky died - He never worked with him. Matthews says he did.

Relative to Clinton, you see two people with similar policy agendas. But Clinton comes from a school of politics that says liberalism can't really win on the questions of war and peace, identity and authenticity, crime and punishment. It says that we live in a fundamentally conservative nation, and that the savvy progressive politician kind of burrows in and tries to make the best of a bad situation.

Really? Their policy agendas were the same!

If they would both pursue the same policy agenda, how can you make such a deep distinction? What does the distinction consist of?

By "burrows in" do you mean "does not talk lavishly about fundamental themes?" I think this difference comes from the fact that Obama plays to his strength as a brilliant orator, whereas Hillary has no such strength to play to.

On the Iraq war I see a difference, of course. But on everything else, Hillary is simply not in the business of inspiring people with a hopeful liberal vision. She's a whip-smart technocrat with a liberal policy agenda. That's her style.

Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi,Joe Manchin and Harry Reid are tying the cinder blocks around Hillary's ankles even as we speak.
Hillary circus shuts down COB Friday.
LA Times reporting -- Wash Post and NY Times still asleep.

From http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/dean-pelosi-rei.html
---------

"With the final primary concluded barely hours before, top Democratic Party leaders in Washington early this morning ratcheted up the pressure to force all remaining uncommitted superdelegates to make their choice of candidate known by Friday -- and thus end the now hopeless, one-time frontrunning campaign of New York Sen. Hillary Clinton.

The joint statement was obviously pre-planned and timed for issue shortly after Clinton refused to concede the presidential nomination's victory to Barack Obama, who's gained sufficient delegates to clinch the party's nomination.

Howard Dean, chairman of the Democratic National Committee, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and West Virginia Gov. Joe Manchin, chairman of the Democratic Governors Assn., issued the brief statement for unity just minutes ago:

"The voters have spoken," they said, adding later, "Democrats must now turn our full attention to the general election. To that end, we are urging all remaining uncommitted super delegates to make their decisions known by Friday of this week, so that our party can stand united."

The carefully-worded statement, which does not urge the superdelegates to go one way or the other, is a clear step to force an end to the effort by Clinton, who said Tuesday she would take a few days to consider her options and protect the voices of the nearly 18 million voters who cast ballots for her in recent months. Her hand is now being forced by the Friday deadline.

The move is also a sly one politically, since it leaves Obama free of any appearance of forcing Clinton to quit and, thus, alienating her millions of supporters that the Illinois senator will badly need in the general election come Nov. 4. "

Also - after apparently lying about Obama working with Alinsky, Matthews then attacked Abe Ribicoff as a snob.

Ribicoff was not a snob - He was an excellent Senator now best know for being the victim of Dick Daley foul mouthed tirade from the Chicago '68 convention floor.

Again - Obama was 11 when Alinsky dies - But Matthews spent the last three days saying they worked together.

Matthews - hated Hillary - but he is no friend of the truth.

Comment,

Matthews is a storyteller. So, he tells whatever stories he gets in his head and that he thinks will have an audience, and he isn't particularly cautious about making sure that those stories are true.

Wow, Matt, did you get a copy editor or something?

Syntactically and grammatically exceptional. Well done!

Also - after apparently lying about Obama working with Alinsky, Matthews then attacked Abe Ribicoff as a snob.

Ribicoff was not a snob - He was an excellent Senator now best know for being the victim of Dick Daley foul mouthed tirade from the Chicago '68 convention floor.

Again - Obama was 11 when Alinsky dies - But Matthews spent the last three days saying they worked together.

Matthews - hated Hillary - but he is no friend of the truth.

Bullshit. He was burbling. His guy won and he thinks it's the dawning of the Age of Aquarius.

Guess what, folks? There is no "transformation" and no "re-making the map" because of "all the new people we're bringing in."

It's the same old map, and you need Hillary voters to win. Betcha hate that.

I am with you, Matt. Maybe the inversion rings more true: the hope of audacity.

1) Actually, in a lot of ways things have worked out well. Not only has Hillary lost, her prolonged carrotchasing has blown $213 Million of her supporters money and has given her a personal debt of $30 million.

2) One could almost suspect that some of those "uncommitted delegates" were not all that uncommitted. But rather that they enjoyed encouraging Hillary to spend it all by dangling a prize just out of her reach.

3) Presidency: gone. Vice-Presidency: gone. Senate seat: looking awful shaky.

4) I suspect some people have done a well-planned catastrophic number on the Clintons. As Lao Tzu said 2400 years ago, in order to destroy it is necessary first to promote.

I'd say that Lincoln's rise to the nomination in 1860 was at least the same level of being an "upset". The presumptive nominee was Senator Seward of NY, the most famous and powerful Republican in the country. Lincoln had been 4 terms in the Illinois legislature and 1 term in the US House, and had failed to win election to the US Senate. But he was a powerful speaker and a shrewd political maneuver-er and deal-maker. And Seward, in his high position, had a lot of enemies.

Hey Don, keep talking like that and your candidate will do worse than McGovern.

His guy won and he thinks it's the dawning of the Age of Aquarius.

No, it's actually the Age of No More Tired Baby Boomer Metaphors.

Re John Petty "Hey Don, keep talking like that and your candidate will do worse than McGovern."
------------
And your candidate is going to be sleeping in the Hudson River within two days. Politically speaking.

Health and Human Services? Obama has a cruel sense of humor, doesn't he? That's one of the things I like about him.

Making a cheerful gesture of reaching out while at the same time dusting a piece of lint off his shoulder.

1)After all, Hillary HAS made a big deal of caring about Healthcare. So Obama dumps the problem onto her.

2) With two outcomes:
a) Hillary comes up with a decent fix -- in which case, President Obama enjoys the applause.
b) Hillary fails -- in which case, Obama can say: "Well, we always knew she was going to fuck it up again didn't we? Just like in 1994."

Which will kinda puts that 3:00am phone call metaphor in the grave, no?

I agree with Matt about the historic nature of Obama's achievement, especially given the power of the Clinton machine he defeated. But I would like to emphasize something other than Obama's message and ideas. It turns out that Obama is a strategically brilliant and incredibly hard working and focussed organizer, with a fantastic team, who has worked like a dog for almost a year and a half to engineer an internal coup in the Democratic party, displacing the Clinton machine and installing a machine of his own as the dominant organizational structure of the party. The message is obviously a big part of the campaign's success. But I think the real story of this campaign is the months and months and months of tireless trench work and organization building.

I have been impressed by how calm and steady of purpose Obama is, and how good he is at keeping his focus on long-term goals, and avoiding being rattled by daily events. There are many times during this campaign when I was reacting to the daily outrage and thinking, "they should do this", "they should do that". But Obama had a long term plan that he and his team stuck to with incredible discipline and composure.

Obama always discusses the virtue of perseverance in his speeches. He frequently reminds his listeners is that important things are very hard to achieve, and take a long time. Some of his critics, and even supporters, thought Obama was just a sort of movement or trend based on a few exciting speeches. Some thought he would fade after the excitement faded, that he could only win with a knockout, not by going the distance. But this has been a grueling race of historically unprecedented length, and he won it not just by capitalizing on short-term waves of enthusiasm and excitement, but by executing a long-term plan.

This is a great sign for the general election, and then for his presidency. He will first have to succeed in executing a five month general election campaign. Then he will have to formulate and execute a strategic plan and agenda for his presidency, in which he has said he plans to rely a lot on "bottom-up" organization and dynamics. I now have a lot of confidence in his abilities.

Just to point out the obvious, Matt is contrasting Obama with former president Bill Clinton here. Hillary Clinton ran for senator of New York rather than governor of Arkansas, and has been a solid liberal Democrat, if a little hawkish on foreign policy.

Relative to Clinton, you see two people with similar policy agendas. But Clinton comes from a school of politics that says liberalism can't really win on the questions of war and peace, identity and authenticity, crime and punishment.

The implication here is that Obama is a more forceful salesman of a more forcefully liberal policy agenda than Clinton. I don't see any evidence for that. Obama won because he ran an excellent campaign and he had an excellent political team. Good for him. But liberals tend to see him as more liberal than he really is because they like him so much.

I haven't seen any audacious policy proposals from Obama as of yet. Sure, he's proposing some health care reforms, but they are rather tepid stuff compared to the program put together by the cautious, triangulating Hillary Clinton back in 1994. It's even more tepid than the plan a much more cautious HRC proposes today. I supposed he's pissed on a couple of single-issue constituency third rails, but nothing drastic.

I strongly recommend the article about Obama's economic team in this month's New York Review of Books. Essentially, Obama has surrounded himself with Chicago School libertarians. This is no surprise, really, as Obama spent 10 years teaching at the University of Chicago himself. I'm not saying that he has a secret plan to dismantle the federal government. But the anti-mandate stance is no fluke. It reflects a deeply held belief that basically the government shouldn't mandate things. Don't look for bold liberalism from Obama. Look for warmed-over triangulation described in soaring rhetoric.

His guy won and he thinks it's the dawning of the Age of Aquarius.

No, it's actually the Age of No More Tired Baby Boomer Metaphors.

zacksback wins.

DTM said:

" ... the community organizations Obama went to Chicago to work with were supposedly based on Alinsky's organizational theories, and apparently Obama was trained by people ..."

Yeah - but Matthews said Obama actually worked with Alinsky. Obama was 11 when Alinsky died.

Maybe he is confusing Obama with HRC's thesis about Alinsky.


DTM - if what you say is true, Matthews would probably say that I, Comment, used to "work with" Maria Montesouri, since I went to a Montesouri nursery school when I was 4.

Re: Presidency: gone. Vice-Presidency: gone. Senate seat: looking awful shaky.

Hillary's Senate seat is secure until 2012, barring truly major scandal or disaster. An she's fairly popular in New York, bot hhe City and outstate areas. Assuming she choses to run, I suspect she'll be the same shoe-in she was in 2006.

DTM said:

" ... the community organizations Obama went to Chicago to work with were supposedly based on Alinsky's organizational theories, and apparently Obama was trained by people ..."

Yeah - but Matthews said Obama actually worked with Alinsky. Obama was 11 when Alinsky died.

Maybe he is confusing Obama with HRC's thesis about Alinsky.


DTM - if what you say is true, Matthews would probably say that I, Comment, used to "work with" Maria Montesouri, since I went to a Montesouri nursery school when I was 4.

I like that Jim W. way way above mentioned Obama's book. So few pundits have read Dreams from My Father or Audacity of Hope except as a source of potential embarrassments. He wrote them entirely himself and they contain a depth of thinking, a capacity for nuance, and a mature worldview unlike any major political candidate in my lifetime. Jimmy Carter and Al Gore might now be considered serious writers, but they weren't as candidates or office-holders. Neither of them ever gave anything like Obama's race speech in Philadelphia. I fear that Matt's initial skepticism comes from a place of ignorance--and I DO NOT MEAN THAT AS ABUSE. He is still very, very good. But how ironic is it that a twentysomething Harvard grad and intellectual can confidently discuss Obama's candidacy while rarely citing his writings, the very backbone of his politics?

Again this morning Matthews specualated Obama telling some working class cops that he "worked with" Saul Alinsky.

Again - Obama was 11 or 12 when Alinsky died.

This lie is obviously some new GOP talking point. It's part of a pernicious effort to paint Obama as a marxist and Mattthews is pushing.

He is knowingly lying - it seems. At first it seemed like he was off his medication and confusing Obama with Hillary's thesis.

But this is a lie.

Mattthews has a ****ing house in Nantucket - He doesn't know from cops

Hee hee hee. Looks like Nancy Pelosi's plan to poke Hillary in the ass with a cutlass and make her walk off the plank is succeeding.

From From http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/primary_rdp

--------------
"Obama spoke as two fellow senators swung behind him after remaining neutral throughout his long nominating battle with Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton.

"We have a nominee of our party," said Sen. Tom Harkin of Iowa. "The nominee of our party is obviously Barack Obama." Sen. Ken Salazar of Colorado also announced his endorsement.

Former Vice President Walter Mondale, who had been a Clinton supporter, announced he was backing Obama."

I agree with Dan Kervick. Persistence, focus, well articulated hope. This is Obama's victory.

I also agree with MY, Obama's opposition to the war set him apart from HRC in a way that lots of people could see and agree with Obama about.

Finally, one other thing. Obama is a third cultural person---those years in Indonesia (same years I was in Jakarta, but he's younger, went to different schools and never to the best of my knowledge came out to the American Club at FOA)those years in Indonesia give a perspective on America's relations to the rest of the world which mean his is not likely to be a foreign policy or a domestic policy with implications for our relations with the rest of the world of the same old tired sort. This kind of a way of thinking and seeing the world can be learned, with a great deal of effort, but he has it from his youth. This is a very good thing.

If my chronology is right, Obama would likely have been in Jakarta when Alinsky died. There was a great deal of real, real poverty in Jakarta then, and a lot of folks working very, very hard. It was a good place to learn to see the world.

This post reminded me of the song from "The Return of the King" cartoon:

It's so easy not to try
Let the world go passing by
If you never say hello
You won't have to say goodbye

You don't take risks, sure, there's no chance of failure. There's also no chance of success.

Rob Mac,

Actually, the review of Sunstein and Thaler's new book in the New York Review of Books explains in some length how Obama's economic advisors are NOT Chicago School people, nor Keynesians, but rather behavioralists, a different approach to economics that arose subsequent to the Chicago School, and indeed in part as a reaction to the perceived defiencies of the Chicago School approach.

Now Cassidy (the author of the review) does end his piece by basically arguing for a more classical Keynesian approach than the approach favored by behavioralists. But I think he misses some of the point of behavioralism. For example, Cassidy writes:

"Once you concentrate on the reality that people often make poor choices, and that their actions can harm others as well as themselves, the obvious thing to do is restrict their set of choices and prohibit destructive behavior."

But behavioralists provide an alternative to this "obvious" approach, which is to use their research to figure out ways to restructure the relevant decision-making situations so as to make it more likely that people will make better choices. In that sense, the behavioralists do agree with the classical Keynesians about some of the problems with the oversimplified models of the Chicago School, but they are also using their research to come up with new solutions to those problems, and that is a point that Cassidy seemed to miss when he reverted just to arguing for what he considers the "obvious thing to do".

And Cassidy is also overlooking a whole other set of relatively recent research involving issues such a regulatory capture, the basic idea being that while granting strong regulatory power to governmental agencies in the hope they will use that power for the benefit of the public sounds good in theory, in practice what often happens is that those powers end up being used on behalf of particular entrenched private interests. In that sense, his "obvious thing to do" often turns out to fail to live up to the hopes of its proponents.

Makes me think of RFK:

There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

Hillary refuses to concede the race to Obama but she is demanding he makes HER his VP?!! She is utterly deluded and insane. We all know what Hillary wants. She wants to be President and even now she believes she is entitled to it and will win it yet. After all, look at what happened to Bobby Kennedy AND to JFK. The Party MUST control the damage that Hillary the spoiler is even now plotting further to wreck on the Obama campaign and to move to win over McSame, who is being helped by the Clinton Dynasty out for revenge. She does not want to be VP, only to make her women supporters madder with Obama if he does not give in to her bullying and to prove he is weak if he does submit to her imperial majesty Queen Hillary Macbeth. We must all be vigilant against the Clinton spoilers.

Matt, what a great post. The comparison with audacious governance in the past is particularly apt; no one except Lyndon Johnson thought sweeping civil rights legislation was possible in 1964.

On the pessimist side, I wonder how the feeling in the party today compares with a similar point in 1976? I have little knowledge of that race, but it seems to me Carter was a pretty optimistic politician too.

Shirl, I trust you are not implying, with your invocation of the Kennedys and the Scottish Play, that Senator Clinton is planning assassination. The worst of the Republican lunatic fringe can be recognized by its insistence that the Clintons murdered Vince Foster (among others). Let's not feed that nonsense.

Add to that list of improbable success stories the astonishing rise of LGBT rights over the past fifteen years. Which makes the high levels of gay support for Hillary all the more perplexing.

Matt, I apologize for playing the age card, but I'm 51 and can tell you that I've spent all my adult life being disappointed in politics. And right now, I'm thrilled that Obama is the nominee. I would much rather have hope that is not completely fulfilled than "realism" that is nothing more than cheap cynicism. It seems to me that Obama's ability to inspire me to think he could do it is one of his great assets. Following up on Jackson's post, I do remember the hopes that followed Carter's and even Clinton's elections that were dashed, but, damn, I'd still rather hope.

Comment,

Chris Matthews actually worked as a member of the U.S. Capitol Police.

Comment,

Chris Matthews actually worked as a member of the U.S. Capitol Police.

I'm a little puzzled what Clinton supporters expect Obama to do to win their support. His policy stances are quite close to hers. To a Clinton supporter, you're not going to get someone in office whose positions are closer. I can only assume that Clinton supporters who want Obama to come crawling and begging for their vote don't really give a shit about the issues. They're showing that all their talk about the "Obama cult" is projecting.

Obama winning might be a longshot, but the smart money always had not-Clinton at 50/50.

Matt is conflating process with policy. Obama was the most reactive and cautious of the big 3 in terms of policy all primary long. His high-concept campaign was bold but not revolutionary. Read some speeches by Clinton in 1992 or Hart in 1984 and you will find hope and change everywhere.

One thing I'd add:

I think Obama's experience of having grown up in different countries (and of a mixed ethnic background) is very helpful to him politically. I too grew up in a lot of different parts of the world, and if you've done that, you always feel like a bit of an outsider, so it becomes second nature to you to try to figure out how things work in the groups/neighborhoods/countries where you find yourself.

I think it's pretty clear from the things that Obama says that he has really looked at the American political system and asked himself, "Why doesn't this work?" and "What would it take to make this system work better?" It's much easier to do that if you've spent some time on the outside, as well as time on the inside. If you've lived in lots of places, you're less constrained by the conventions of the very local debates of the places where you find yourself, because you know that both sides of the heated debate that you are witnessing are taking for granted several things that would be hotly disputed by people a mere two thousand miles away.

Just my cent or so.

“It's an attitude very much borne of the brutally difficult experience of organizing for McGovern in Texas and running for governor in Arkansas at the height of Reaganism.”

As far as Bill Clinton goes, I think that this is pretty spot on. As I’m only 29, I can’t pretend to understand the trauma of Democrats and all left-leaning Americans who had to cope with the rise of Reagan. So I don’t blame Clinton for his triangulation.

But as a 29-year old with an eye towards history, I understand that political movements don’t last forever. FDR had a great movement, his New Deal coalition. Reagan helped to create something similar in terms of political effectiveness, albeit very different in terms of its effects on the country. I won’t be bold enough to say that Obama is creating something similar as well, perhaps you can’t see these things coming. But I understand that political movements don’t last forever. I think the conservative boogeyman is not in the closet any longer.

Brian,

Are you implying that it was okay for Matthews to tell a lie about Alinsky and Obama, just because he had a temporary job with the Capitol Police?

I know he worked there - But what's the point you are trying to make?

Obama never worked with Alinsky - Matthews should not be permitted to lie and say otherwise

Brian,

Are you implying that it was okay for Matthews to tell a lie about Alinsky and Obama, just because he had a temporary job with the Capitol Police?

I know he worked there - But what's the point you are trying to make?

Obama never worked with Alinsky - Matthews should not be permitted to lie and say otherwise

Honestly, I'm astonished Hillary did as well as she did. She's a fundamentally poor candidate.

Honestly, I'm astonished Hillary did as well as she did. She's a fundamentally poor candidate.

Obama ran a great campaign, Clinton not so much.
I think in the end it all comes down to voting coalitions and this was the year wine plus cognac defeated beer.

Brian - never mind - I know know what you were referring to. But Matthews still has no idea what he is talking about and he overplays that temporary job.

The point seems to be that he is erected a bogus issue on a pseudo basis - Matthews has no standing to challange Obama on any level like ths. Matthews exaggerates his own upbringing's lack of wealth.

Now that HRC has faded, he decided to invent this Alinsky story as part of his own narrartive games.

Matthews is gonna get in trouble eventually.

And he does not know from cops, no matter what small job he had a quarter of cent. ago.

His disgust comment about Abe Ribicoff should not go unaswered.

What did JFK say about Ribicoff? The man Matthews called a "snob?":

"Exactly one hundred years ago, in the political campaign of 1856, a new element was introduced into American politics - a secret party - secret because its members were instructed to reply, whenever they were asked about the party's policies, "I know nothing". But the objectives of the Know-Nothing Party, as it was called, were not secret - it was an anti-Catholic, anti-Jewish, anti-immigrant organization. It was the party of bigotry and intolerance of the American people. The Democratic Party, I am proud to say, met that challenge head-on - declaring in its convention platform its unending opposition to secret parties and religious and national intolerance, as not "in unison with the spirit of enlightened freedom which distinguishes the American system of popular government."

Tonight, one hundred years later, the Democrats of Massachusetts of all races, creeds and national origins are proud to play host to a man who symbolizes for all America the victories over know-nothingism that have been scored in the past century. The Ribicoff home in New Britain, Connecticut, into which our speaker was born some 46 years ago, was a poor Jewish home, without political influence, without economic security. From his boyhood on, young Abe Ribicoff worked - as a newsboy, an errand boy, a store clerk and a road construction worker; later as a manufacturer's representative while attending the University of Chicago; and finally as a lawyer in Hartford."

Sic Transit Gloria Tweety

“I have been impressed by how calm and steady of purpose Obama is, and how good he is at keeping his focus on long-term goals, and avoiding being rattled by daily events. There are many times during this campaign when I was reacting to the daily outrage and thinking, "they should do this", "they should do that". But Obama had a long term plan that he and his team stuck to with incredible discipline and composure.”

I agree wholeheartedly.

The man, (ooh, I’m sexist), must know how to flush his veins with ice water when the situation demands it. I always thought, at least since I became aware of politics, that you needed to be the most vicious candidate if the race got close and you wanted to win. But Obama outclassed Clinton every step of the way. Maybe he still needs to be vicious to take care of McCain in November. But he actually won over the Clinton machine; the biggest, strongest Democratic political machine since the Kennedys ran things and did so with a smile.

It has yet to sink in fully.

Peep said:

I don't see any reason to believe that there will be any bold initiatives.

At this point, four years of not screwing the pooch overseas while giving away the store to the top 0.1% bracket counts as a bold initiative.

Obama's team ran a great race, but one is either naive or disingenuous if they think the Obama's campaign did not play rough when it suited them.

“On the pessimist side, I wonder how the feeling in the party today compares with a similar point in 1976? I have little knowledge of that race, but it seems to me Carter was a pretty optimistic politician too.”

One can not consider this question without also taking into consideration the very different world Carter had to operate in.

In 1976, Carter won the election in the aftermath of Watergate. The GOP brand was artificially low because of Nixon’s unique scandal. It did not steam from an overall rejection of a GOP/Conservative ideology. Indeed, before 1980, the US hadn’t had a truly Conservative president since Herbert Hoover. Eisenhower was a RINO. And Nixon’s tactics may be standard operative procedure for conservatives today but his administration saw the creation of such things as the EPA, OSHA and almost gave us a national health care program. Today, conservatism to the extent that it has been linked with Bush’s policies, has apparently been rejected in large part.

Because in 1976 Conservatism has not been rejected by the voters, Regan could show up in 1980 and win with some basic ideology jazzed up with his considerable rhetorical charm. Indeed, it can be argued that 1980 was, in part if not in total, a rejection of old-school liberalism. Today, even if there existed a GOP pol with the rhetorical gifts of Reagan, (and no such person exists), what basic ideology is he or she going to use? Communism is gone and the notion of similar simplistic attitude towards terrorism has been proven faulty. Taxes? Well, no one ever wants to pay more taxes, that is for sure. And no Democrat or Progressive should ever say “everyone needs to pay more taxes”. But the GOP after Bush can not longer be considered the party of fiscal sanity. Our long-term financial outlook as a country in terms of debt should scare the hell out of every American. So targeted tax increases, (in the form of rolling back Bush’s taxes cut for the wealthy) and an approach of future government spending with an acknowledgement of the fiscal peril the next generation always factored in, would present itself as more responsible than anything the GOP currently offer.

Carter came to DC in 1976 as a true outsider and offended such liberal establishment figures as Teddy Kennedy and Tip O’Neal almost from day one. Obama maybe be a fresh face but he is not the outsider Carter was, he maybe be a freshman Senator but he still is a Senator. Obama can make the Democratic Party his 100% if he wins in November, Carter never even tried to do that.

Finally, that 1979-1980 period saw a vortex from hell open up and nearly swallow America. An economy in the tank, gas lines, the Hostage Crisis…much of it not of Carter’s making. Now I’m Irish, I know things could always get worse. But what do you think the chances are that 2009-2012 will be worse than 2001-2008? Objectively speaking mind you.

“Obama's team ran a great race, but one is either naive or disingenuous if they think the Obama's campaign did not play rough when it suited them.”

I don’t know if this was referenced towards me but I did not say that Obama won by playing tiddlywinks. My point was that he won and did so while being less dirty than the Clintons. He won and outclassed them in doing so. I didn’t say butter won’t melt in his mouth but he looks like a political angel in comparison to the Clintons.

I agree Obama's audacity to think he could be president was the brilliant first step.

The second was to tap into the 8 years of contempt for the current administration. It runs deep among Democrats ,Republicans, the entire world. No other candidate was able to so effectively and so eloquently tap into that. Edwards tried to, but his delivery was off. Of course, Hillary's message was more about Hillary, even when it wasn't. But, the biggest problem we are facing today is actually not Iraq, healthcare, or energy dependence; its the Admnistration's systematic dismantling of the institutions we need to intelligently resolve these issues. That alone is making all of these problems worse. It seems to me the first order of business get rid of them and their mindset. That is a pillar of Obama's message and it resonated well.

The third was to get people to believe that we can get rid of the bums and solve these problems. Even if there are some failures, the beauty of his message is he's inspired a generation to keep plugging.


Hillary Clinton is STUNNING!!!

You have just witnessed the greatest political campaign fight in American history. One for the textbooks, and the history books. Hillary Clinton fought her heart out against all odds to win for all of the American people . While at the same time doing her best to prepare Sen. Barack Obama to win in November if he was the nominee. STUNNING!!! WELL DONE HILLARY CLINTON. WELL DONE! Your AMAZING! :-)

Sen. Obama could not have had a better opponent than Hillary Clinton. Nor could he have had a better opponent to prepare him for the battle royal to come against John McCain and the Republicans ahead of the November elections. Hillary Clinton was like a big Mama cat determined to teach her kitten how to hunt, and hang with the big dogs for the fights ahead.

And how about Bill Clinton, Chelsea, and th whole Clinton team. They were magnificent. They really showed their metal. BRAVO! TEAM CLINTON... BRAVO!

And how about YOU! my fellow Americans. I'm so proud of you. And proud to be one of you. You showed what you are made of. And what makes America so great. You never gave up on your Champion Hillary Clinton. Time, and time again you eagerly waited your turn to vote for Hillary Clinton. To pick her up and pass her along down the line to the rest of your fellow Americans.

You never gave up on her. Just as Hillary Clinton never gave up on you. No matter how many times they counted her out. No matter how many times they brutally knocked her down. You knew she would get back up. And you were ready to support her when she did. AMERICA LOVES A FIGHTER. AMERICA UNDERSTANDS A FIGHTER. AMERICA IS A FIGHTER. I'M PROUD OF YOU AMERICA!

Hillary said she would accept the VP spot on the ticket if ask. And I am thrilled to hear that. I think it would be crazy not to take her up on that offer. You could not have a better VP than Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton is Sen. Obama's best chance of winning the Whitehouse in November. And it is essential that the democrats take back the Whitehouse.

The American people are in a very desperate condition now. George Bush has wrecked America, and much of the world.


YOU MADE US VERY PROUD HILLARY CLINTON! :-)

WE LOVE YOU...


jacksmith... Working Class :-)


p.s. I really liked Sen. Barack Obama's speech in Minnesota. I think he just maybe ready now for the Bush Republican attack machine, dirty tricks, and vote fraud machine. :-)

Re: Finally, that 1979-1980 period saw a vortex from hell open up and nearly swallow America. An economy in the tank, gas lines, the Hostage Crisis

I was 12 years old then, and my memory is that the times kinda sucked (and disco really sucked). But I don't recall any sort of looming apocalypse. Nor do I recall gas lines. Weren't those in the earlier energy crisis, the '73 embrago? At least in Michigan there were no gas lines, just people bitching about expensive gas.

"But I don't recall any sort of looming apocalypse. Nor do I recall gas lines. Weren't those in the earlier energy crisis, the '73 embrago?"

Come on now, I was speaking with my tongue firmly in cheek. I didn’t mean the world or even the country was coming to an end. Obliviously 1812, 1861, 1929-1933 and 1962 were far more perilous years for the future of the country.

My point was that Carter’s four years, in particular his last two, saw lot of horrible things happen. They were largely not Carter’s fault but he was also largely powerless to help alleviate the problems. Kind of like 1968, although LBJ has already decided not to seek re-election when a lot of the hell started raining down.

Oh and yes, there were gas lines. Not as bad as the ones in 1973-74 mind you but they were there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_energy_crisis I don’t usually like using a Wiki link but it does seem to check out.


Comments closed June 18, 2008.