« The End | Main | As Expected » The Trouble With Boston18 Jun 2008 06:16 pm Some question my loathing for Boston sports teams. But to be clear, there's nothing really wrong with the teams. The problem is the fans. I note that when Bill Clinton was president, we didn't have this plague of Hub championships that Bush has unleashed. Comments (98)
YES! THANK YOU! As a New York sports team fan, I REALIZE I'm obnoxious and everyone hates me!! 
Meanwhile, in the real world, there was relatively little property damage and few arrests following the win yesterday.
The problem with Boston sports fans is that they get mocked by repellant douchebags?
Meanwhile, in the real world, there was relatively little property damage and few arrests following the win yesterday. It was a mostly peaceable assembly. High spirited shirtless douchebaggery, however, reached levels not previously recorded.
Word. Rooting for Houston is never easy, but watching Ralston failing to close the deal over and over and hearing the lamentations of the Revs fans made it all better.
There is no defending Boston sports fans as a whole. They are insufferable. And the front-running with Celtics this year was truly pathetic. "Well of course we didn't go to games last year. Duh. They weren't good." And let's not forget that Fenway didn't even sell out during large portions of the 90's. Boston fans suck.
Gabriel is right. Matt reallty didn't see that what he links to is itself a hi-larious skewering of Bar-stun fans? Wild.
I prefer these: 1. http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/2007/10/ksk-guide-to-being-insufferable-hole-s.html Read the "letter" in the second one.
Boston fans' reaction to Spygate was really all you need to know... "Our team would never cheat!!" Actually, they got caught. Its on film. "Well, fuck, everyone does it!!" Um, actually, they are the only team to be caught doing this. "Geez, one game, and now all this?!" No, they've actually been reprimanded before in Green Bay. "So what, its not like you could actually gain an advantage doing it!" Really? How come they've been doing it for six years? Still trying to work out the kinks? "Fuck you! The Patriots rule!! They would never cheat!"
Let's not forget their awed, childlike (or -ish, take your pick) wonder at what was pretty obviously Paul Pierce's bid for an Oscar in Game 1. Makes you wonder if that douchebag Schilling didn't prick his finger with a needle and dab that sock.
Woody,
While I may agree in principle, I think it fair to note that the author of this post has repeatedly expressed views which align him with the one and only fan-base more reprehensible than Boston fans.
This brings up the question: Is it trolling if it's your own blog?
In '04, my sister and I went to the last Red Sox series of the regular season, in Baltimore. We had two signs: one said "Sox Fans for Kerry" and the other one said "George Bush: Only MLB Owner to Vote Against the Wild Card." There were a lot of bemused-looking O's fans, but we did get high-fived by a Kerry-sympathizing Yankee fan. Not sure if our behavior supports or undermines Matt's theory of Boston fans, but in any case, I thought it worth pointing out that George Bush actually did what he could to prevent at least one Boston championship. After all, no wild card would have meant no World Series for the Sox in '04.
How about some correlation between Boston sports championships and presidential elections.
Boston fans are annoying, but then you have Cowboys fans. THEY are the worst. And they won tons of titles in the Clinton years. Including beating the pinnacle of all things good, the Pittsburgh Steelers. So I'm not buying your Bush bashing argument here. ;) It applies to Clinton too. Somehow, Bush and Clinton have combined to bring insufferable fan bases titles. This reason alone is enough to be glad that we aren't going to have a Bush OR a Clinton in office in 2009.
Maybe you should link to actual tales of Boston fan douchebaggery instead of linking to the sour grapes mocking of a regular old douchebag.
Like a lot of things (music, movies, etc.), there is way more coverage of awful New England sports fans and less of the run of the mill fan. There are four types, I'll rank them in order of prominence 1. Middle-aged and old guys. There are way way more people that won't venture out to a game or a bar, but are massive fans. Some of them are literally massive. And they've been rooting their teams since the Sox and Pats were laughingstocks. 2. Douchebags. Every town has em, New York more than everywhere else combined, Boston/Chicago/Philly fighting for second. eff those guys. 3. Don't discount the Boston Fan Diaspora, which, because of the numerous colleges and universities in New England, means there are people that go to school in NE, move for a job, and still root on their squads. There are fans almost everywhere. I spent a year in Hawaii for a year, and used to go to a bar with 20 or so Sox fans for every weekend game. 4. The indie/nerd fan, of which the Boston/NE obliterates the competition. (I'm an unabashed member of this group.)
Let's not forget their awed, childlike (or -ish, take your pick) wonder at what was pretty obviously Paul Pierce's bid for an Oscar in Game 1? Oh Gawd, another paranoid, sore-losing Lakers fan. It's nice to know all them years of Red's waging psychological warfare on your dumb asses worked, and now we're inside your heads (and holding an 8-2 advantage in championship series, but who's counting?). Look, it's pretty simple, Pierce collided with a man who measures 6'10" 270 lbs. Some part of one of limbs understandably buckled in pain, and Boston's medical staff (as such people are want to do these days), taking no chances, rushed him into the locker room. Pierce, being the trooper that he is (think Kobe could have survived eleven stab wounds?) tried to stand, found that his leg was usable (if a tad stiff) and naturally insisted on reentering the game. When you play hard, injuries major and minor happen, which explains why Lakers fans aren't familiar with this phenomenon. Well, fuck, everyone does it!!" Um, actually, they are the only team to be caught doing this. Um, actually your amateurish elision doesn't hide the fact that there is widespread agreement in NFL coaching circles that indeed plenty of unsanctioned video recording was going on, hence the need for the commissioner's office to send out, um, all those letters. Being the only team *caught* doing something obviously doesn't equate with being the only team *doing* something. Part of me believe Bush doesn't want to enable anyone from Massachusetts... It's part of his rivalry with his father. Poppy, as some of us know, was born a Bay Stater.
What kind of reaction do you expect from fans of teams that have historically not won, when those teams start winning championships? I spent the better part of my life listening to people tell me Boston sucks, Red Sox suck, they'll never win, Pats are a laughing stock, Celts will never win again. Fuck you all. The same poepl who used to say that are now saying they are sick of Boston winning and hate their fans. Again fuck you all. You don't like how we celebrate our teams finally winning, none of us really care. The only positive I can see from this post and the comments is to point out that the whining about Boston fans is similar to right wing argument tactics, (composition fallacy and the like). Its good to shine a light on that. Republicans treat their party like a sports team in how they defend it and they hero worship the leaders of the party like fanboys following Kobe or Tiger around. Go to a Yankees website and make a disparaging comment. Someone will call you a Red Sux fan just like a wingnut calling you a liberal if you disgree with a post on a right wing blog.
Um, actually, they are the only team to be caught doing this.' Being the only team caught somehow proves no one else did it? Moron. Again this is the kind of logic you come across arguing politics with republicans.
Boston winning means Dennis Leary - a man who combines a tone-deaf theft of Bill Hicks' act with Andrew "Dice" Clay's "look at me, I'm a tough mofo" shtick (and honestly now they are combined about half as tough as Richard Simmons)-is happy.
No kidding Matt, I hate those bean eating douche bags.
Andrew's 4th (and 2nd kinda) point proves my argument exactly. They act like the world should love them, that their shit doesn't stink, that they're the best fans. Newsflash: You now have as many douchebags as New York. You do. The rest of the world sees it. Accept it. I have. And SoSH is nothing unique. Trust me, I know more about baseball than you do, and I know nothing compared to the people on the sites I frequent.
M.Y. has irked me lately. First his agreement with Jonah Goldberg (the first, you'll note, since they both agreed that facial hair is a good way to mask a weight problem) and now all this anti-Boston trolling. But I guess I'd be upset too if I had too root for the Knicks.
Sadly, no gets it right: 'And it makes perfect sense why America hates Boston. If I sucked as much as the rest of America did and had to look with envy upon a golden city made of sparkledust that had world-famous educational institutions, a prominent role in American history and the most winning sports teams in recent memory, I’d hate it as well.'
I look forward to a careful dissection of all those mistakes Doc Rivers made, cause he doesn't know as much about basketball as those of us who frequent centrist demo-blogs.
B. Minich, The Pittsburgh Steelers are far from the "pinnacle of all things good." They are a loathesome team that plays in a pathetically weak division. They have obnoxious and self righteous fans. There should be a special place in hell for the team that forced Bradshaw on an unsuspecting populace. I do agree with you about Cowboys fans. And I also agree that Boston and New York fans are generally obnoxious.
Sadly, no gets it right: 'And it makes perfect sense why America hates Boston. If I sucked as much as the rest of America did and had to look with envy upon a golden city made of sparkledust that had world-famous educational institutions, a prominent role in American history and the most winning sports teams in recent memory, I’d hate it as well.'
Only in Boston could something so special as Sons of Sam Horn exist. This probably has something to do with the number of highly educated people in and from New England (or were educated in NE). Regular Joes like me who can spit out definitions for OPS+, DIPS and a bunch of other stuff you never heard of. We know more about our teams than anyone else does their's. We probably know more about your team than you do. And we listen to better music too. Posted by Andrew | June 18, 2008 7:43 PM Stop, you're making us look like douchebags. You don't see Bill James saying this crap, and he basically invented sabermetrics and is on the Sox payroll.
NYer In NY, they shit on a manager with the second best record in team history (Willie Randolph), and run a guy with 4 rings out of town (Joe Torre). It'll be great to see those two new stadiums half full next year because the teams went to shit. Also, tell me, where in NY do they have a class like this that is open to seventh graders? I know nothing compared to these guys. Last, Boston doesn't have the best fans. St. Louis is better, so are Cubs fans. Packed house no matter what. Steelers too. Seattle fans are nuts. And none of them are as passionate as a big-time college football fan. (I know way to many insane OSU fans.)
Hey Matty -- Go fahk yourself.
so are Cubs fans. Packed house no matter what. Have you ever been to Wrigley? Go there and watch a game sometime. You'll be one of the six people out of 35,000 that is paying attention to what's happening on the field. As it is, the place is essentially a glorified high school stadium filled with Trixies and frat boy douchebags. I live here, and I don't care for the Cubs or White Sox, but at least White Sox fans are honest. No one claims to be a White Sox fan unless they truly are. Any asshole can claim to be a Cubs fan. As for Boston, there is no lower form of life than a Red Sox fan at a road game. They used to write columns every time the Sox went to Anaheim about how "there are more Sox fans at the game than Angels fans". It was always bullshit. They were just louder, and yelling like assholes when the score was 0-0 in the bottom of the second inning while Angels fans were, ya know, actually watching the game.
Was this intended to by tongue-in-cheek, or are you really indulging in thoughtless, insulting generalizations? Wait, maybe all Democrats are elitist commie terrorist lovers!
At least boston has a real commuter rail network. DC is a second class city trying to pretend it's a real place.
Have you ever been to Wrigley? Go there and watch a game sometime. You'll be one of the six people out of 35,000 that is paying attention to what's happening on the field. This White Sox fan thanks you for pointing this out. :-) The problem with Boston fans is perhaps best displayed by this Bill Simmons column. It's not that your team is good, it's that you seem to want the rest of us to be happy about it. Look, everyone hates the dominant team but that team's fans. That's how sports works. When Jordan was on the Bulls, did you see Bulls fans wondering why everyone didn't love them? Nope. We knew why our team was hated, and we accepted that. There's a reason why everyone other football fan in the damn country laughed with joy when Plaxico Burress caught that pass. Why Boston uniquely fails to understand this, I don't know. The sad thing is I'm a sabermetrically inclined guy, so I want to like the Red Sox for hiring people like Bill James. I want to be happy for KG for proving legions of idiot sportwriters wrong for saying he couldn't win a title because he "lacked leadership" when it was really because he lacked a supporting cast. But Boston fans make this impossible for me. Though I'll agree with Andrew about one thing, that class looks pretty cool. :-)
The only sporting event I remotely cared about was years back when it looked like the Red Sox and Cubs, both Pennantless for many decades, might actually play the World Series, raising important questions like:
I'm glad Matt passed this one along. I've been awfully jealous of the class with which New York sports fans have conducted themselves. It's always impressed me that, especially compared to the folks in Southie, the North Shore, and Beacon Hill, the New York area's white ethnic and WASP populations demonstrate a tremendous degree of tolerance toward racial and sexual minorities, foreigners, and outsiders. Indeed, even the exceedingly rare New York fan ignorant enough to possess such retrograde views as commonly ring through the famously intolerant halls of Boston would be so shamed by his fellows' abject disapproval that he would never, ever direct his resentments toward the members of an opposing team or its fans. And as a result, fans of out of town teams are welcomed into Yankee Stadium, the Meadowlands, and Madison Square Garden and may freely cheer for their teams without the slightest worry of verbal abuse, thrown objects, or physical violence. The result is a fan culture that deeply respects the accomplishments of opposing teams, and actually rejoices when another team's cohesion, spirit, and ability advance the frontiers of athletic achievement and heighten interest in their sport. New York fans take their setbacks with grace, realize that even the best sporting talent experiences its ups and downs, and wait patiently for their teams' return to greatness. As for New York's teams themselves, how starkly do they compare to the avaricious mercenaries fielded in the city of Boston! New York management has been ever insistent on maintaining a level playing field among competitors and has thoughtfully abstained from using the earning power granted them by their market and ongoing popularity to poach talent from other, less wealthy clubs. As a result, New York squads are renowned throughout the nation for their emphasis on teamwork and good sportsmanship, to the point where individual greed and showboating earn the opprobrium of the sporting press and a quick trade, lest such bad attitude poison the tranquil air of the clubhouse. And, certainly, no New York team or manager would ever be so callous as to bend the rules, let along outright cheat. It truly pains me. Had I not been born in Boston and warped by its rabid bigotry and the slow ethical and mental self-mutilation that comes with rooting for the city's teams, I would certainly move to New York and step in behind the glorious Yankees and their happy brethren. Oh, how I would revel in the erudition of the Post and Daily News sports pages! How I would bask in the warm glow of New York fandom and its love of pure sport, the grand spirit of competition! But alas, although I know that New York, which although in their modesty and cosmopolitanism its residents would never be so crass to say so, is the only city in the world of any culture, achievement, interest, or wealth, I cannot go. My soul would so quickly explode in resentment that I should collapse with the first breath of New York air.
Being from CT I am a hardcore Red Sox fan. My NFL allegiance is split between the Partiots and Giants (yeah, yeah, yeah the last Super Bowl was a tough one for me to watch). As far as the NBA goes I am not a huge fan of the game but I do pull for the Green especially against the Fakers... First off I saw this championship coming for Boston. Too much KG, Ray and Pierce and not enough Kobe. As far as the Pats go. Spygate was an embarassment and in a sense the G-Men beating the Pats was poetic justice. Besides now each team I pull for now has 3 Super Bowl victories. But I agree many Pats fans, in general, made far too many excuses for their team when they got caught cheating. The Pats were penalized by the NFL (both monetarily and with the loss of a 1st rounder) and ended up losing the Super Bowl and their perfect season. Is it safe to say "justice was done" or karma had its way? As far as the Sox go...Yankees fans can suck my b*%lls. We won another get over it!!! After 86 years of heartbreak ('49, '50 '67, '78, '86 & '03) Sox fans are gonna be hated and reviled for celebrating like there was no tomorrow? So be it. Hate us. I hope the Sox win again this year and we are hated even more. But if the Sox don't win I am pulling for the Cubs to break their drought. As far as the Yank-me's go...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...you guys SUCK!!!! You ain't gonna win a thing with THAT pitching!!! You never know Tampa still might win the East, but if they don't they still should finish ahead of the Evil Empire...suck on that George and Hank. ;-)
Seitz and Phaedrus: Yeah, right sox fan boys, you sure spoke truth to power there.
I went to a Boston sporting event once. There were a fair number of local ruffians there who threw about some of the most vile obscenities I'd ever heard. They reveled in a sort of narrow provincialism that was straight out of the 19th century. Many were visibly intoxicated.
Seitz and Phaedrus: Yeah, right sox fan boys, you sure spoke truth to power there. I hate the White Sox. I just hate the Cubs more. I'm an Angels fan, and have been since I was born 35 years ago. I just respect the fact that the people I meet who claim to be White Sox fans can actually talk about baseball, while people I meet who claim to be Cubs fans are universally douchebags who couldn't tell a double play from a double switch.
Oh and as far as the Celts go I think they should thank Mr. Arenas who ran his mouth at the beginning of the season about how the Celts weren't that great and the Wizards were the team to beat. Ummmmm...what happened there with that bit of prognostication? Buehler? Is that what this is all about MY? The "big star" on the team you pull for should concentrate on his game a bit more and keep his trap shut.
Way to go, Matt. You now sound like the same retards who dissed Obama not for being a bad candidate but for having followers who were mean, sexist, rude, or whatever. You know what? I probably hate most Boston fans, too. I tend to dislike most people, and Boston is a place with lots of people——many of whom I have to see on the T or downtown or in my office or on my street or on I-93 or wherever. But I still like the Red Sox and the Celtics because I grew up with those teams, they're in the media market I happen to live in, and I like the way they play the games and win most them. There's simply no point in debating what team or city has the worst fans. In reality, most fans of most teams are assholes. That's just life: Most people suck. So, why not focus on the teams, just as we should focus on political candidates rather than the people, anonymous or specific, who like them?
Hating a team because of its fans is like hating Democrats because you hate Barbara Streisand.
All real sports fans with any sense are too busy watching Euro 2008 to give a shit about the Celtics anyway. And I live in Boston.
As a Philly fan, I highly enjoyed watching Kobe sulk while KG and Pierce whooped it up. That was fantastic display of basketball last night, and much respect. Plus, you know, Kobe choking, That was awesome. Today, however, Boston can go piss up a rope. As can Kobe. God, I loved seeing him lose. (See, Boston? Nobody actually cares about the Celtics.)
Well color me surprised - New York City native Matt Yglesias has mean things to say about Boston...
Bob, You know what? Wrigley is a great stadium, better than Comiskey or the Cell. There are a hell of a lot of drunk assholes at a Sox game. But that still doesn't change the fact that most people at a Cubs game are yuppies who could give a shit about baseball. If you're one of the rare ones who actually care about the sport (two of my good friends are too), then good for you. I didn't actually grow up in Chicago but in northern Indiana, and thus my choice of White Sox over Cubs was somewhat arbitrary. It wound up being largely based on the fact that most Cubs fans I encountered were just the type Seitz describes.
MY's just bitter because he spent his college years in Mass cooped up in harvard square, afraid unwashed "townies" would pick on him if he ventured out. You've gotta love a New Yorker who just adopted the Wiz 5 minutes ago dissing Boston fans.
MY's just bitter because he spent his college years in Mass cooped up in harvard square, afraid unwashed "townies" would pick on him if he ventured out. You've gotta love a New Yorker who just adopted the Wiz 5 minutes ago dissing Boston fans.
Lots of real basketball fans don't give two shits about Boston but were supporting the Celtics' eminently likable cast, including the obvious Most Valuable Player of the NBA, KG. Because, as we all know, Kobe Bryant? BIG OL' RAPIST. And a giant douchebag.
Come on, ml, take it easy, every white person in DC just adopted the Wizards 5 minutes ago too. And they'll forget about 'em as soon as they move back to wherever they're from.
While this is undoubtedly true, it's hardly a legitimate criticism. I spent 5 years in Boston and absolutely loved it, but those townies were the biggest douchebags I have ever encountered as a class.
Matt's just upset because his man-crush Gilbert Arenas can't wait to get away from the Bullshits or the Wizzpots or whatever they're calling themselves these days. It's not Boston's fault that the Red Sox, Patriots, and Celtics are the best-run, most enviable teams in their respective sports today. Maybe all you jealous fools should start demanding accountability from the hillbillies and goons who run your bedraggled franchises.
The thing that Boston fans have over LA fans, Detroit fans, Chicago, Washington DC fans? Winning does not trigger a gang war combined with a celebration throughout LA Metro. The riot police were out after the last one cleaning up the bodies for days. Winning in Boston does not trigger the burning of cars and attacks on random whites that victories in Detroit and Chicago led to. DC does as Detroit and Chicago do, they just add buildings to their victory bonfire. Luckily New Orleans has no real basketball team and the Saints suck, so the savages are content telling sob stories about the 3 flatscreen HD TVs they got in Katrina were stolen by some other gangstas and it ain't right and the Fed Gov't should make them whole..
If you hate to see Boston fans celebrate, why don't you try winning? Yes, Boston townies are ignorant, irritating evolutionary throwbacks who look better with targets painted on their faces. But it isn't their fault you lost.
I was amazed while watching game 6 of how the fans were singing the "Nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah nah, hey hey hey, goodbye" song for like five minutes during the fourth quarter. Not only is it childish and profoundly and annoyingly cliched to ever sing this, but it was also situationally inappropriate. Had the Lakers won the couple of titles previous to this one (hence they must say "goodbye" to the championship stage), this would have made some sense. If the Lakers were either huge favorites in a first round series (like Dallas against Golden State last year) or if they were defending champions being defeated by a lesser foe (like if Atlanta had somehow managed to win game seven against Boston this year), it would have made a certain amount of sense. But with Boston being the number one overall seed, and with LA maybe being a bit of a favorite but with no immediate past of either winning titles or domination of the Celtics (historically, of course, the opposite is true), then this song makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Why worry at all about the Lakers? They clearly were inferior in this series, and definitely in this game. Just sit back and cheer for your own team.
"I note that when Bill Clinton was president, we didn't have this plague of Hub championships that Bush has unleashed." One not very interesting factoid is that after Nixon's election, when arguably modern party allegiances were set, the Yankees have won the World Series in every term of a Democratic president but have never when a Republican is in office. And this is likely to continue, the team is unlikely to do much this year due to injuries but since they restocked their farm system their prospects are about as bright as the Democrats in the medium term. Also, if you take any city and have their teams win the World Series, the Super Bowl, and the NBA championship within one year, their fans will be insufferable.
... after Nixon's election, when arguably modern party allegiances were set, the Yankees have won the World Series in every term of a Democratic president but have never when a Republican is in office. The Yankees last won a Series during a Republican administration in 1958. They last lost a Series during a Democratic administration in 1964. Bizarro stat #2: the last six times Kentucky has won the NCAA title ('49, '51, '58, '78, '96, '98), the Yankees have won the Series the same year.
Luckily New Orleans has no real basketball team Just when you think Chris Ford can't get any more ignorant... [The man is a published author! I'm rewriting high-school level essays for minimum wage. It boggles the mind...]
boston fans suck, L.A. fans suck. the question of, 'who to root for?' in this finals simply came down to the personnel. It got pretty easy to root for BOS over LAL when one views it as, Kobe and Phil vs Pierce, Allen and KG.
Phaedrus, Even worse. Simmons openly rooted for the Celtics to lose last year to get a draft pick. The obnoxious thing about Boston fans (I lived in the city for four years) is their belief that they're the greatest most loyal and knowledgeable fans in the world, when they're in fact big frontrunners. As evidenced by the non-existence of Pats fans before the Parcells era, who disappeared until their first Super Bowl title. The ease of getting Sox tickets in the 90s (I used to be able to buy tickets on the day of the game). And then there's the whole disappearance and reappearance of Celtics fans. While this is normal for a lot of fan bases, at least they don't spend most of their time bragging about the superiority of their fan bases. Winning in Boston does not trigger the burning of cars and attacks on random whites that victories in Detroit and Chicago led to. Obviously, you were nowhere near Kenmore Square after the Pats won. I don't remember gang violence after the Lakers won their 3-peat. Oh and about attacks on random people.
oh noes TEH FENWAY DIDNT SELLOUT EVRY GAME IN TEH NINTEYS!!! U R NOT RL FANS!
the couple digs here at red sox attendance in the 90's are hilarious given that the sox pulled over 2 million people annually to puny fenway throughout the decade except for the strike year of '94 and the following shortened season.
Every fanbase is exactly the same. Boston fans have just been more visible of late.
Obviously lolsportz missed the point. It's not that they're like typical fans that lose their interest when their teams suck, it's that they claim to be teh awesomest fanz in the world when they're frontrunners. passing thru,
well, my point was that attendance in boston remained strong during the 90's as the red sox were still in the upper echelon of attendance during the decade with one of the smallest parks in the league. this was in response to people implying that sox attendance was weak during the 90's. as for the straw man bit about LA attendance, i'll leave that to you since it has nothing to do with what i was saying...
Sticks and stones, sticks and stones. At the end of the day, YOU'RE ALL LOSERS BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!1!!!!11!!!
The ease of getting Sox tickets in the 90s (I used to be able to buy tickets on the day of the game). You still can go to Fenway and get day-of-game tickets. You just have to go a few hours before game time to get a decent spot in line. Anyhow, complaining that Boston fans have not collectively managed to fill each and every seat at each and every home game throughout history is pretty silly. And even if they had managed to do that, you'd probably then complain that our fans are blindly loyal fools for wasting time and money watching bad teams slog through pointless seasons. Either way, Boston haters will find a way to slam us. When we win, we're obnoxious gloaters with no class. When we lose, we're chumps for liking "cursed" teams.
I propose that we retire the term "douchebag" at the end of the year along with the tired "under the bus" phrase. Can we vote on this?
I spend 9 minutes per year rooting for athletic teams. Almost all of them with "Cleveland" in the name. No fans suffer more. Not even Cubs fans. At least Cubs fans are in Chicago.
If there was any doubt that Boston fans are insufferable idiots, all you would have to do is read this thread. Do you people listen to yourselves? Take the following for example... "If you hate to see Boston fans celebrate, why don't you try winning?" See, this misses the point completely. A lot of teams have had a lot of success. Its always been clear to anyone that associates with Boston fans that they are front-running assholes. The past 7 years haven't changed anything. Its only brought attention to the problem. Face it, Boston, you are collectively a really shitty group of fans. Get over it. But hey, congratualations on that Celtics victory. Its okay that the team was irrelevant in Boston for the past decade. But wait, let me guess, you were trying to send a message to management by being incredibly shitty fans, right?
Ed and Thlayli, to follow up on what you said about the Yankees vis a vis Dem/Republican -- it goes back even further...I'd argue, to when Babe Ruth made his famous "I had a better year than he did" about Hoover. The Yanks won in '32 -- by which time most public figures were having a better year than Hoover -- along with FDR, and, in the years since, have played in, if my reckoning is correct, 23 Series during Dem administrations (winning 19), while making only 10 during GOPer-led times, winning a paltry 3 (all during Ike, who probably wouldn't even be a Republican today). (The partisan breakdown of those years, by the way, is a nearly equitable Dem 40/GOP 35, so it's a notable split) Word to those already writing off the Yanks this year: 1932, 1960, 1976 -- three of the last four times the Dems took the White House back from the Pubs, the Yankees at least got to the Series. The Red Sox have a weird stat as well: nearly all their championships were during the Wilson or Bush administrations -- administrations that were elected in flukes (the Roosevelt/Taft split; Florida); re-elected by the then-smallest margin in American history; engaged in a messianic overseas war that left the party hugely unpopular; violated civil liberties; questioned the patriotism of those who challenged them; lost both houses of Congress in their sixth years; and (hopefully) forfeited the White House by a wide margin after two terms.
Boston fans cannot defend not selling out Fenway every game. It is a tiny stadium in a "baseball town." You city is full of shitty fans. Get over it.
Certainly, there is a sizable douchebag quotient amongst the Boston fanbase (and I say this as a Boston-bred Red Sox, Celtics, and Patriots fan). That said, there's a sizable douchebag quotient in any sports fanbase. I lived in San Diego for four years, and Padres games were usually half-filled with Giants and Dodgers fans looking to brawl. Those sophisticated Californians... Let's not get started on the subject of New York. The real story is, people who hate (insert city's name here) fans are just jealous. That's pretty much the crux of it.
Needless to mention, there's a sizeable douchebag quotient among the supposedly sophisticated readers of the Atlantic Monthly spewing nonsense on these comment pages.
Yeah, Joel, and you're clearly one of them. Don't bad mouth the sports threads right after dipping into it yourself. To say that every fanbase has idiot fans completely misses the point. I don't think anyone would claim that a particular team's fanbase is devoid of assholes. The point is that the percentage of Boston fans who tend to be idiots and assholes seems to be a staggeringly high amount. Simply mentioning that other teams have asshole fans as well is silly.
Just got back from the parade, my favorite highlights being Eddie House's ever-present son and shirtless Big Baby.
Criticism of "Boston Fans" seems to be veiled criticism of a certain element from South Boston that immediately makes intellectuals think of the 70's busing riots. So what are we really arguing about here. The criticism also seems to stem from sour grapes too. If LA or Phili or NYC were winning all these championships would there fans be any less annoying?
Yes.
Timmy, I don't think you read Joel's post carefully enough. You seem to be making the point that Boston has more asshole fans than other cities, and that it's no rebuttal to that assertion that other cities also have some asshole fans, because, in your view, the crux of the issue is that Boston has more asshole fans. But Joel didn't just say that other cities have some asshole fans, he said that other cities have a "sizable douchebag quotient" just like Boston has a "sizable douchebag quotient." You can agree or disagree about whether Joel is right that cities tend to have approximately equal percentages of douchebag fans (obviously, a lot of people here are convinced that Boston is 99% asshole fans), but that was his argument. He wasn't saying that a couple of assholes in Philly moots an entire city of douchebags. In any case, I'm a Boston fan. I recognize that's an accident of birth -- the only fans I really disapprove of are the ones who switch allegiances from the teams of the places where they were raised. But I like to think that my family and I aren't assholes or douchebags, and even our Yankee and Laker fan friends seem to think the same. And hey, I don't think they're assholes or douchebags! Imagine that. I'll never understand the need to establish some other team's fans as the worst. I hate the Lakers and the Yankees, but I don't hate their fans. Because the truth is, they're just like me -- it's just the color of the uniforms they root for that's different.
Boston fans have sucked longed before the Pats won the Superbowl in 2002. They've always been this way. The winning doesn't have much to do with it. It has simply made it obvious to the rest of the country.
"Because the truth is, they're just like me -- it's just the color of the uniforms they root for that's different." I can't speak for you and your friends, but that statement is not true for opposing fans. I've lived in St. Louis, Chicago, New York, and Boston. All during periods of winning. There is simply no debate that Boston fans, as a whole, are terrible, terrible people. That's the point that everyone here is making. Sure, some Boston fans are fine, I'm sure.I've never met any personally, but I'm sure they do exist somewhere. Vermont, perhaps. But if you were to tell me that that I had a chance to hang out with a random Red Sox fan, or a random Mariner's fan, for example, there wouldn't be a question. The Boston fan is probably an asshole.
Steve, you lived in Boston and you never met a fan who was even "fine"? Really? Does this mean you lived in Boston and didn't have any friends who rooted for the city's teams?
So now it's all about which city's fans have the highest probability of being an asshole? Brilliant. It's about as valuable and meaningful an insight as pointing out that gays tend to vote Democratic, and therefore all Democrats are gay.
Rebecca,
Tinisoli,
People can bullshit all day, if they want. At the end of the day its just that, bullshit. Its piteous, envying bullshit, which is the worst kind.
This is an argument that will never be won because everyone here is relying, not on logic, but on weak anectdote, assertion and perception. Statements that Boston has more asshole fans is completely unmeasurable and is not being argued in good faith. I used to hate Yankee fans and NYC fans in general. Since Boston started winning I don't really think about them that much and that is a good thing.
This is an argument that will never be won because everyone here is relying, not on logic, but on weak anectdote, assertion and perception. Statements that Boston has more asshole fans is completely unmeasurable and is not being argued in good faith. I used to hate Yankee fans and NYC fans in general. Since Boston started winning I don't really think about them that much and that is a good thing.
If I drink concentrated OJ,
Anyone who thinks Boston has crappy fans needs to watch this video about 7 minutes in. Clyde Drexler fouling out in a hard fought double-overtime game on national television, with 41 points and 8 rebounds, and the Garden crowd, rather than singing "Hit the Road, Jack" or something similarly juvenile, gives him a standing ovation: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ecdP0F-qPwI&feature=related (By the way, more generally, all the clips on youtube of that game are worth watching-- one of the greatest NBA games I have ever seen.)
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Part of me believe Bush doesn't want to enable anyone from Massachusetts...unless he hates New York more. He must like John Kerry that much more.
Posted by Sean | June 18, 2008 6:36 PM