The LA Times writes about the Think City a small but functional electric car coming from a Norwegian company. This isn't going to suit most Americans' automotive desires, but I think it would be very promising in the European market where a lot of people like little cars that are well-suited to occasional trips through narrow urban streets and small parking spaces. Meanwhile, at least some Americans seem to be buying Smart Cars these days, which are comparable in size to the City, so you could see a niche market for this in the USA which would certainly count as a step in the right direction toward a better transportation future.
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Think City
25 Jun 2008 05:23 pm
Comments (29)
The SMART car, which doesn't really deliver exceptional mileage, is yet another example of stupid fucking Americans who think they can consume their way out of a crisis that was caused by consumption. See: Vespas.
Better solutions. Please?
I've been seening more and more SMART cars around Boston the last few months.
I've been seening more and more SMART cars around Boston the last few months.
Ouch. According to the NYT auto blog, a Smart Car goes from 0-60 in ... 15 seconds. That's probably slower than the Geo Metro I drove in high school. And my Geo got better mileage, too -- how the hell do they make a car that sucks that bad to drive and still only gets 35 mpg? What a piece of crap.
And seriously, just look at it. I'm not a nationalist in many things, but the fact that Americans have too much dignity to be seen driving a car like that makes me proud to be an American.
The SMART car, which doesn't really deliver exceptional mileage, is yet another example of stupid fucking Americans who think they can consume their way out of a crisis that was caused by consumption. See: Vespas.
Better solutions. Please?
Posted by Jamey | June 25, 2008 5:49 PM
Give me a break. What, exactly, should the average American be doing? Working on an electric car in their garage for 6 hours a night? Stay in their SUVs? Or maybe they should do what they can, since they still have to go to work somewhere that might not be within a few miles of where they live.
Or maybe they should just live in caves and hunt antelope.
The real winners in the coming small car sweepstakes are likely to be the usual suspects, Honda and Toyota.
Honda will introduce two gas/electric hybrids in the next two model years, a five passenger hatch and a two passenger sports coupe. Both will be superior to the Smart in every performance/convenience category except parking while returning better mileage.
The Smart's major weakness is it's engine, an older design with very little power that works so hard to get the car to accelerate to and sustain freeway speeds that it returns surprisingly poor mileage. The Prius, the Honda Civic Hybrid and the VW Jetta Diesel are all currently equal to or better than the Smart when it comes to gas mileage and oddly, the Smart requires premium fuel.
Toyota has developed a car that is somewhat larger than the Smart but still smaller than a MINI that will have flexible seating with room for three adults and a child which makes it nearly perfect for singles with more than one friend and couples with one or two children.
Smartcar:
"40 city/45 highway mpg according to 2007 EPA standards and 33 city/41 highway mpg according to 2008 EPA standards"
Toyota Yaris: 29/35
Honestly the smart car isn't less expensive, or much better in terms of MPG than a Yaris. Compare dealer incentives and warranty, and I don't know how smart it really is.
The real winners in the coming small car sweepstakes are likely to be the usual suspects, Honda and Toyota.
Yep. While GM and Ford shifted production to SUVs and pickups (nice big markup) the Japanese makers used their foot in the door to go small. The 'vanity pickup' (i.e one that rarely has anything in the bed) is heading into obsolescence. Or repossession.
"lfv," no, not caves--but maybe we could start living in man's natural habitat, the city.
"lfv," no, not caves--but maybe we could start living in man's natural habitat, the city.
Posted by xbkjb | June 25, 2008 6:15 PM
Sure, and you let me know when there is affordable single family housing in (good) urban areas. I guess we should expect people to live in places that aren't available to them? It will take years to build denser communities and, considering the amount of wealth Americans already have invested in their homes, some way to preserve that wealth. Condemning people for not being able to make a choice that isn't available to most of them is beyond moronic.
Instead of offering $300 million dollar prizes I'd like to see somebody introduce legislation standardizing vehicle emissions and safety standards across the major industrial powers. There are lots of what would be called "niche" cars in Europe that could be sold in the US.
I saw a study that showed the average fuel economy of European vehicles was 40 MPG vs. 24.4 MPG for the US. That would change fairly quickly if Ford could sell cars like the Fork Ka, a 'city' car that gets an average of 48 MPG as a daily driver and 58 MPG on the highway.
Assignment desk: Could the US join a treaty with the EU or G8 to standardize vehicle safety and emissions around the world? How would you go about reducing the obstacles for US consumers to buying smaller vehicles from overseas -- many made by Ford and GM abroad.
I agree that a Smartcar isn't the wisest choice on a mpg basis compared to other compact models.
However, it does have one significant advantage - street parking capabilities in a city. The Smartcar is less than 9 feet long and can squeeze into many spots that are impossible even for other tiny cars like a Yaris (over 14 feet long) or Mini Cooper (over 12 feet long). The driving saved while searching for a parking spot may not make up for the less than stellar mpg, but the time saved can certainly be worth it for your sanity if you find yourself needing a city car.
Isn't the relative mileage of a Smart Car sort of missing the point? The whole idea is that they're meant to be driven to the grocery store, to run errands, to get around in big cities and that sort of thing. 33 MPG is going to last a long time even you drive a lot, but only drive short distances.
Granted, there are more traditional looking cars that do the same thing, and probably do it better right now, but it seems to me the real advantage of a Smart Car would be the ability to find non-metered, non-spaced parking, i.e., typical street parking in a place like Chicago. As such, other than as a vanity item (hey, look at me!), they aren't that great unless you live in an area like that, but that has more to do with performance than mileage. They seem to be designed for the urban dweller, not the suburban dweller who is probably much more concerned with MPG.
The Smart Car and its derivatives will never catch on in the U.S. It's just too weedy and pathetic. And in 5 years, you'll be able to buy a plug-in hybrid SUV that gets much better fuel economy. Already, the Toyota Prius, a much larger vehicle, beats it on fuel economy.
And in 5 years, you'll be able to buy a plug-in hybrid SUV that gets much better fuel economy.
'You'? Uh-huh. Crackster just can't abandon his fix of automotive seclusion, safe from icky people with lots of cupholders. Which is why he's so accustomed to whining like a spoilt kid. One standard for his predictions, another standard for everyone else's. Glibertarianism personified.
And in 5 years, you'll be able to buy a plug-in hybrid SUV that gets much better fuel economy.
Right...because it is every American's dream to drive a car that is as large as possible. Lefties just have this hang-up over carbon emissions, but once that obstacle is cleared, then everyone will be driving vehicles that basically require a commercial driver's license to operate.
Large vehicles have their uses, but bigger is not strictly better for every consumer. Not everybody gets to park their car in a nice full-sized parking spot in a 2-acre lot at every stop. I don't think the Smart Car will ever outsell a car like the Honda Accord, but it can definitely occupy a niche in today's car market.
The Smart Car is in fact a mileage dud thanks to old technology, but of course a similar car with the same generation of technology will kick the living daylights out of a SUV for mileage, and that will remain true until they repeal the laws of physics.
Anyway, the Think City looks interesting, but I hope Matt paid careful attention to the battery issues (again, not that McCain's prize makes sense, but the battery issues really are a holdup right now for electric cars). That said, it seems to me their lease-the-battery idea would work even better if you went all the way and used these things for a car-sharing service (probably not as the only vehicle, but perhaps as the cheapest option).
I drove a Smart Car around Italy for a couple of weeks a few years ago, and it's a fine car; a bit smaller than subcompacts here, but not really problematic to drive in the city or on the highway. (Aside from a bizarre gear shift that gave me trouble from time to time.)
Right...because it is every American's dream to drive a car that is as large as possible.
No, not "as large as possible," and not "every American," but most Americans, and larger than the typical European car (much larger than the Smart Car.)
Electric vehicles require much less space for the powertrain than combustion-engine vehicles, so eventually cars may get significantly smaller overall, without sacrificing cabin or cargo space.
In the US, you need a big car to protect yourself from getting crushed if you ever get into an accident with an SUV. Not to mention that in a small car your view is blocked by SUVs and you're constantly blinded by SUV headlights. The cars we drive are to a large extent a collective choice, not an individual choice.
The Smart car is a heavy beast for its size, loaded with luxury equipment, so its gas mileage is mediocre for its tiny cargo capacity. It's for people who want to make an ostentatious statement that they are Saving the World. Alternatively, you could get a Yaris and carry four people, but then people would look down on you for buying a cheap car.
But, then, so much of environmentalism these days is just an excuse for more fashionable shopping.
The other reason people buy a Smart car instead of a Yaris is to signal: "I don't have children."
The whole idea is that they're meant to be driven to the grocery store, to run errands, to get around in big cities and that sort of thing. 33 MPG is going to last a long time even you drive a lot, but only drive short distances.
Except due to the laughable cargo capacity you can only run one errand at a time. So you have to take more total trips.
But, then, so much of environmentalism these days is just an excuse for more fashionable shopping.
Tilted on its side, this actually makes perfect sense. When society starts to care about an issue, addressing it becomes the fashionable thing to do. Some people will care about doing right, others will care about looking right, and many will care about both. People are vain, but this is pretty universally true, not exactly the domain of the left.
The opposite, that something should become regarded as being important without ever denting current sensibilities or having late-adopters respond to the currency of the issue, would seem more strange to me.
I'd just like to add that I'm surprised by all the Yaris love. It looks like a nice car though. I should probably mention the Chevy Aveo, a Daewoo rebrand that sold so surprisingly well that it opened the doors for cars like the Yaris. Previously no one thought to make a very small car and sell it in the US with things like cupholders and "features", instead small cars were cheap pieces of crap like the Geo. So thank you Korea.
Can anyone imagine a real world plan that will even slow AGW? A world wide plan with no cheating? It is to laugh. I'd be pleased to settle for a little less than the worst. No, it looks like Gaia (or functional equivalent) has found the perfect tool for our comeuppance. If we were able to sneak a peak at where human population might stand in 100 years, I'd bet we'd see a level about 2X of the late 18th century.
Conversions are the new black. 5k to make your prius 90% electric.
A few companies will make any car/truck/ cycle electric for a couple thousand.
"In the US, you need a big car to protect yourself from getting crushed if you ever get into an accident with an SUV. Not to mention that in a small car your view is blocked by SUVs and you're constantly blinded by SUV headlights. The cars we drive are to a large extent a collective choice, not an individual choice."
That's exactly what I told my parents when I said I was doing drugs. I said, "You need to do drugs to protect yourself from the other people doing drugs if you ever have to encounter them. Not to mention that when you are sober, you have to see all the other people who are on drugs, so you might as well do drugs too. I take drugs because I have to make the collective choice, it's not about my decisions as an individual."
Yeah, whatever, Ragout.
Call me European (I live in LA), but I'm gonna get a Think.
Comments closed July 09, 2008.
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Heads in the Sand
I have a notion that in the not-too-distant future, lots of Americans who can't survive without cars will have Think City-type vehicles, or Smart Cars of one variety of another, and then utilize car-sharing services for those one or two weekends a month when they absolutely can't live without a Hummer.
Posted by Jasper | June 25, 2008 5:45 PM