« State Directors | Main | Requests Thread »

Wadhams on Afghanistan

25 Jun 2008 03:23 pm

080501-F-2828D-239

Last week I linked to a report for the Center for American Progress by Caroline Wadhams and Lawrence Korb called "The Forgotten Front" about Afghanistan. Some of you weren't convinced by their argument that continued U.S. engagement in Afghanistan could, if married to a new strategic approach, bear fruit for Americans and Afghans alike. Wadhams was kind enough to email some thoughts in response to some of the issues raised in comments:

A number of readers question whether the Afghan government is legitimate and argue that President Karzai is just a puppet of the U.S. government. They appear to advocate a complete U.S. and NATO withdrawal from Afghanistan.

First, the polls indicate that the majority of Afghans do not believe President Karzai is a puppet of the U.S. government or the international community. In a poll from September 2007, seven in 10 Afghans (71 percent) were very or somewhat positive in their general opinion of the Karzai government (versus 20% who are negative), and six in ten (59%) believe the Karzi government represents their interests as Afghans. Another poll conducted by the BBC in December 2007 and Asia Foundation confirmed this view. Furthermore, these polls show that the majority want an international troop presence.

Now that doesn’t mean that President Karzai is the perfect leader. He has not been sufficiently aggressive at battling corruption in his government or in removing officials who have links to the drug trade. And, he is gradually losing the support of the population. But he has been critical of the international community (for good reason) for civilian casualties, ineffective aid and the sidelining of the Afghan government. He has not just been a spokesperson for the US-NATO coalition.

Second, how does our withdrawal from Afghanistan help the Afghans or the region? The insurgency will continue and escalate if we leave. One of the biggest mistakes from our previous engagement in Afghanistan was that we poured billions of dollars into Afghanistan to support the mujhadeen during the Soviet occupation in the 1980s and then completely withdrew all aid after they left. That left the Afghans at the mercy of vying factions, and led to the Taliban’s rise. Withdrawing aid and troops from Afghanistan will leave them again vulnerable to insurgents and warlords, battling for control of the country. How does a failed state in Afghanistan help advance U.S. national security interests?

Third, labeling it as an occupation (and therefore writing off the whole endeavor) ignores the efforts by Afghans themselves to move their country forward. The Afghan government in consultation with the Afghan people just created their own Afghanistan National Development Strategy, which is a 5 year roadmap for rebuilding and developing their country. What’s more, there are very successful programs underway, such as the National Solidarity Program, which is driven by local Afghan interests, not by “occupying forces.” The international community is also undertaking efforts to build the capacity of the Afghan government, both in Kabul and at the provincial level, so that the effort can be turned over to them. While there are problems with the sidelining of the Afghan government, a lack of coordination among the Afghan government and the international community, and too much decision-making occurring in foreign capitals, many are trying to remedy this, and the United States and NATO do not want to stay there forever.

Fourth, Al Qaeda remains a threat, and its central location is along on the Afghanistan and Pakistan border. Senior military and intelligence officials have been raising this issue with increasing intensity over the past year. They predict that the next terrorist attack will most likely come from the Federally Administered Tribal Areas of Pakistan, along the border with Afghanistan. If you withdraw from Afghanistan and allow a complete power vacuum to develop, you offer increased space for this group to operate. Doesn’t seem like a great strategy to me.

Counterinsurgency is an inherently difficult undertaking. But this seems like the kind of situation where it can be made to work -- the public is broadly supportive of the national government and of the idea of foreign military support for that government and the international community is broadly supportive of the same. In Iraq, by contrast, it's been clear for a long time that a majority of people want us gone and the largest bloc of people who welcome our presence, the Kurds, don't believe in the existence of Iraq at all. In Iraq, the key to our ability to sustain our presence there is that the same internal divisions among Iraqis that are preventing political consolidation are also preventing the consolidation of a broad anti-American movement. In Afghanistan, the trend lines are pointing in the wrong direction but there's a real basis for the possibility of success.

DoD photo by Master Sgt. Andy Dunaway, U.S. Air Force.

Share This

Comments (50)

Wow, I want to have sex with that pilot.

Is that Keira Knightley? If so, where do I enlist?

Well, now we know of at least one of Matty's fetishes.

Better looking than Keira Knightley.

Paragraphs 4 and 5 could recycle the same arguments hawks apply to Iraq. How does withdrawal help the Afghans or the region? Well, it may not. But it's the wrong question.

The burden is not on opponents of a U.S. military presence to show how withdrawal will help - the burden is on proponents to show how an indefinite presence of some 30,000 troops is doing anything to help. What, precisely, are the risks presented by a failed state. Don't give me this "terrorist camp" nonsense. The dudes who pulled off 911 didn't need some fucking camp to do that, and in as much as other assorted bad dudes need some kind of meeting place, Bagram Airforce base is not standing in their way.

Ditto the line about how the Afghans are taking the lead. Sure they are. The locals in Afghanistan is not as hostile to an outside presence as the locals in Iraq, but they're getting more pissed with every passing day.

A vague desire for "victory" does not equal goals and strategies.

"In Iraq, by contrast, it's been clear for a long time that a majority of people want us gone"

Does the elected mostly Shiite Iraqi government want us gone? Do the Sunni tribal leaders want us gone? No. In fact they are both asking us to stay.

From June 13 2008 interview:
"Our American allies need to understand and realize that this agreement must be respectful of Iraqi sovereignty," [Deputy Prime Minister Barham ] Salih said. "We need them here for a while longer, and they know they have to remain here for a while."

Not to mention the leader of the Sunni Tribal Shieks is very pro-american
http://www.nysun.com/foreign/help-against-bin-laden-is-proffered/79524/


So don't "quote" old pre surge/anbar awakening polls with dubious reliability, when no one in Iraq is asking us to leave except perhaps Moqtata al Sadr.


"In Iraq, the key to our ability to sustain our presence there is that the same internal divisions among Iraqis that are preventing political consolidation are also preventing the consolidation of a broad anti-American movement."

The Sunni tribes don't want us to leave, the Shiite Maliki government doesn't want us to leave, but if there were no internal divisions they would want us to leave. How does that make any sense?

The logic in the article applies equally well to Iraq and that feeble attempt to distinguish the Iraq situation isn't convincing at all.


sirs (comments 1-4),

comport yourselves as the gentlemen you no doubt are!

yours truly,
c.v. snicker

sirs (comments 1-4),

comport yourselves as the gentlemen you no doubt are!

yours truly,
c.v. snicker

Well I think that ... wait ... let me look at that pilot again. Yes, uuuuuuh, as I was saying. Wait. What was the question again?

Beautiful, and she could kick my ass. And she can fly.

Cheers for Francisco.

You took the words out of my keyboard.

Western invaders since Alexander the Great
have uniformly failed to 'modernize' Afghanistan.
I see no reason to think that the present effort
will succeed.

Just like Iraq, its THEIR country, not ours.

Also, just like the Iraq discussion:
"The insurgency will continue and escalate if we leave."
Well, he insurgency is growing and we are still
there. Sound familiar? All the bad things that are predicted to happen if we leave are already happening as we stay.

I thought for a minute it said Webcams on Afghanistan. That's the most beautiful pilot I've ever seen.

I know how Ambinder feels now when he looks at old John McCain photos.

I think, to the administration, Iraq probably looked like that helicopter pilot looks to you folks.

Can't . . . focus . . . on . . . Afghanistan.

She gets my rotor spinning.

Ha! Good one, southpaw.
OT: I know a several of female fighter pilots who rival or exceed the one pictured. While I fail to see how the picture relates to the story, I am always happy to see images of attractive military women engaged in their jobs. I guess what I'm trying to say is...don't be so shocked, everybody.

The original on flicker is super-high quality. If you want to say it to your HD and make it a background, grab that one!

Also Matt, why does your comment system take FIVE MINUTES once I hit the submit button, to load up the new page? I'm on a broadband here...

I would like to be in her helicopter.

Well I understand that military ladies can't be all season 2 Carter from Stargate, but all too often they are so no nonsense the look bland in news reports or history channel shows (like Mail Call).

So it's nice when you get something unexpected.

Good Point MNPundit. I choose (rightly or wrongly)to blame a great deal of the blandness on the uniforms/grooming standards. When someone can overcome those obstacles to femininity (and purposfully so), kudos to them.
You go girl.

Matthew,

I hope ALL of the comments are forwarded to Caroline Wadhams. I believe we've settled the matter at hand.

Christ, are all of us on this stupid blog heterosexual males?

Well. I guess so.

1. I have no doubt that a decades-long multinational foreign occupation will make changes in Afghanistan. Whether we will like those changes, or, indeed, whether we have any real way of anticipating what those changes will be seems problematic at best. One thing I AM fairly sure of: if we believe that giving every Afghan a TiVO, 2.5 well-behaved suburban kids and a Prius is going to make them behave "like us" we are mistaken. WAY too many of these "let's stay because leaving will be bad" memes make the assumption that better roads and public sanitation will change the fundamental way people think. But consider the opposite: without an Enlightenment we might well still be fighting crusades and jailing heretics and witches. Central Asia shows little or no sign of moving away from their Old Time Religion or wanting to. Short a divorce of Islamic church and state, how likely is it that, regardless of time, effort and rounds on target that we can produce, or our Afghan proxies can produce, a secular, free-market, Western-oriented nontribal democracy?

Remember Vietnam? How by bringing democracy and good government to the villes we could woo the locals from their fear of/hope in the anticolonial/antioccupation/antiwhatever guerillas and into a love affair with the corrupt, Francophone, Catholic elite left behind by the French? Ummm, yeah.

Every occupation of Afghanistan since Alexander's time has run up against the same reality: the locals hate you worse than they hate their traditional enemies. I see no indication that 2008AD is proving all that much different from 408BC.

A punitive expedition would have made sense. Trying to fundamentally remake Afghan society? Not so much.

She can chopper down my privates anytime.

Wait, that didn't sound right.

Someone give that pilot a star! If Petraeus looked like that, we'd have a lot more hearings on Iraq.

Oh, and

2. Y'all need to get your minds out of the gutter! She's probably someone's daughter who has NO interest in getting her hands on your joystick.

That said, she is a seriously gorgeous young officer. All the way, ma'am!

I knew it. I knew when I clicked on the comments that they would all be about the picture and not the post, which I haven't read yet. I agree the pilot is way hot and distracting, though.

re: photo, wwmyt!!! ("what was matt yglesis thinking") in any case, here's a hig rez photo. no monet, she....

I thought she was Ms. Wadham. Nice going, guys.

So first, yes, she's attractive. Second, I'd agree with her assessment, we can't ditch Afghanistan. I think a lot of us are conflating the situation there with Iraq. Sure, they're both being decided by our incompetent administration, but while Iraq is a mistake that never should've happened, Afghanistan is very important.

I disagree with Francisco's comment. While hawks make that argument for Iraq, it may actually hold true for Afghanistan. I'd say we need to work with the Afghans on development. It ain't going to work overnight, but a sustained INTERNATIONAL commitment with lots of oversight for where and how that money is used, would do a great deal towards helping the country.

This is an operation that was backed by the international community. If all the resources we've burned in Iraq had been deployed in Afghanistan, the place would probably be much better off. If America starts leading on this, other countries will support us. Right now, most of them are looking at the disparity in attention Iraq and Afghanistan get, and wonder, "why bother."

This thread is precisely why the internet can't have nice things.

There are precisely two internet traditions:

1) Snark

2) Misogyny

Hooray. I am aware of all internet traditions. And now Caroline Wadhams is aware of them too.

Wait, is she wearing a checkered scarf around her neck? Call Malkin, stat!

What was the qvestion again?

Right. We should time-transport the whole kaboodle back to 1975. Nice place back then, Afghanistan.

The picture is of U.S. Air Force Capt. Sheila Carlson. Blame Matt for picking the picture if you want.

2) Misogyny

This is an Obama blog, so of course there is misogyny.

Is it normal for female pilots to pluck their eyebrows and wear as much makeup as she is? Or did she just do that for the photoshoot?

Well look, she's attractive sure.

But what makes her extra hot is that--stay with me now--she can fly a kick-ass helicopter in a war zone.

If she were just some girl I saw on the street I'd glance for a moment then move on, but because of the knowledge of her specific occupation and that she could and would go into a war-zone to perform it is what ups her so much. How is that a hatred of women?

This is completely and utterly wrong and clueless.

Now that doesn’t mean that President Karzai is the perfect leader. He has not been sufficiently aggressive at battling corruption in his government or in removing officials who have links to the drug trade. And, he is gradually losing the support of the population. But he has been critical of the international community (for good reason) for civilian casualties, ineffective aid and the sidelining of the Afghan government. He has not just been a spokesperson for the US-NATO coalition.

This is a red herring. Wadhams admits Karzai was not elected, and that he is losing both the support of the population AND the warlords, who are now opening talks with the Taliban.

The fact that he's been critical of the occupation is irrelevant. I repeat, he wouldn't be breathing if he didn't have the protection of 600 US mercenaries - and the recent assassination attempt shows he has no guarantees even there. The Taliban have recently announced plans to assassinate him AND President Bush.

Second, how does our withdrawal from Afghanistan help the Afghans or the region? The insurgency will continue and escalate if we leave.

No shit, Dick Tracy! And guess what? If we do NOT leave, the insurgency will continue and escalate!

What part of this obvious conclusion doesn't this moron understand? This is the same stupid comment you find about Iraq.

The Afghan government in consultation with the Afghan people just created their own Afghanistan National Development Strategy, which is a 5 year roadmap for rebuilding and developing their country.

What part of "the guys with the guns do not give a shit about road-building" doesn't this moron understand?

Fourth, Al Qaeda remains a threat, and its central location is along on the Afghanistan and Pakistan border. Senior military and intelligence officials have been raising this issue with increasing intensity over the past year. They predict that the next terrorist attack will most likely come from the Federally Administered Tribal Areas of Pakistan, along the border with Afghanistan. If you withdraw from Afghanistan and allow a complete power vacuum to develop, you offer increased space for this group to operate. Doesn’t seem like a great strategy to me.

And what do you offer as an alternative? Dump 160,000 troops into Afghanistan and turn it into Iraq? Continue to press for cross border operations into Pakistan and destabilize that country and aggravate anti-US feeling in that country even worse? Doesn't seem like a great strategy to me...

Here's the reality:

General: Attacks up 40 percent in east Afghanistan
http://wiredispatch.com/news/?id=225341

Afghan warlords stockpiling opium crop
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article4206730.ece

Pakistan calls the shots
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/JF25Df01.html

The US has been particularly concerned since the new coalition government took power after February's elections, as it was supposed to be US-friendly. But it has refused point-blank to adhere to earlier commitments it made for joint operations with the US in Pakistan's tribal areas against Taliban and al-Qaeda militants.

This message was relayed through Pakistan's ambassador in Washington, Professor Husain Haqqani, and to the US Embassy in Islamabad, that Pakistan will fight the "war on terror" on its own terms and that it will not pull out of any peace deals it has with militants. And the Americans will not be allowed to operate in Pakistani territory.

Washington saw the writing on the wall immediately after the February polls when former premier Nawaz Sharif's Pakistan Muslim League won more seats than was expected. The anticipation had been that the US-friendly Pakistan People's Party, headed by former premier Benazir Bhutto until her assassination last December, would romp home.

Amid the political uncertainty that this result caused, allied with terror attacks in the country, the military delayed operations in the tribal areas. The military's position was hardened when on June 10 the US attacked militants in Pakistan's Mohmand Agency but killed several Pakistani security forces.

Washington's plan, which had been in the making for two years, is now in ruins, that is, the ideal of a compliant elected government, an accommodating military and a friendly president (Pervez Musharraf) acting in unison to further the US's interests.

The crux is, while America was playing its game, so too was al-Qaeda. Through terror attacks, al-Qaeda was able to disrupt the economy, and by targeting the security forces, al-Qaeda created splits and fear in the armed forces, to the extent that they thought twice about dancing to the US's tune.

Unlike Musharraf, when he wore two hats, of the president and of army chief, the new head of the military, professional soldier General Ashfaq Kiani, had to listen to the chatter of his men and the intelligence community at grand dinners.

What he heard was disturbing. Soldiers from the North-West Frontier Province region were completely in favor of the Taliban, while those from the countryside of Punjab - the decisive majority in the armed forces - felt guilty about fighting the Taliban and reckoned it was the wrong war. Therefore, Kiani decided it was necessary to support peace talks with the militants to create some breathing space for his men.

At the same time, the dynamics in the war theater have changed, providing Pakistan with more options and more room to play in its Afghan policy. Pakistan's former ally in Afghanistan, the Taliban, are no longer irrelevant; they have emerged as the single-largest Pashtun opposition group.

On the political front, the pro-Pakistan Hizb-i-Islami Afghanistan holds about 40 seats in the 249-seat parliament - a sizeable chunk - and it hopes to put up a candidate in next year's presidential polls. Even if it does not beat President Hamid Karzai, it could serve as a strong opposition catalyst. Antagonism against Karzai and his American masters is also on rise, and Tajik warlords in the north have started negotiations with the Taliban.

In this situation, Pakistan has the liberty to make its own decisions and American pressure on it is significantly less effective.

Washington is acutely aware of the damage Pakistan could do if it decided on just a minimum of support for the Taliban, such as secretly equipping them with short-range missiles or providing training courses.

The top brass at General Headquarters Rawalpindi realize they now hold a strong hand and that every minute of Pakistan's non-cooperation in the "war on terror" is a threat to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization mission in Afghanistan.

Matt says:

But this seems like the kind of situation where it can be made to work -- the public is broadly supportive of the national government and of the idea of foreign military support for that government and the international community is broadly supportive of the same.

You believe that because you're clueless about 4th Gen War, Afghanistan, and pretty much everything else involved in this discussion.

While the support of the local population is important for the success of a counterinsurgency, as I have said repeatedly here, COIN CANNOT be done by a foreign power, It has to be done by the local government and the local military alone (or at best, "advised" by foreign military experts.)

Instead, if you've already forgotten the GAO report on Afghanistan's military, let me refresh your poor memory:

US lacks detailed plan for Afghan forces- report
http://wiredispatch.com/news/?id=217908

The Government Accountability Office said Congress should not approve any more funding for those forces until the Pentagon and State Department complete a plan to develop them.

"Until a coordinated, detailed plan is completed, Congress will continue to lack visibility into the progress made to date and the cost of completing this mission -- information that is essential to holding the performing agencies accountable," the GAO said in a report.

It said future U.S. investments should be conditioned on such a plan for the Afghan National Security Force.

According to the GAO, both the Afghan army and police are far from ready to undertake security operations without substantial help from U.S. and NATO forces.

Only two of 105 Afghan army units are considered fully capable, GAO said. About 36 percent can conduct their own operations but only with routine international support. All of the rest are much less capable, the report said.

The Afghan police are in worse shape. According to the GAO, no police unit is considered fully capable of performing its mission.

Both the army and police lack the personnel, training and equipment to conduct operations, despite more than $10 billion in U.S. funding over six years. They also suffer from bureaucratic problems and corruption, the report said.

But Washington's focus on military operations in Iraq also has contributed to shortfalls in equipment and training in Afghanistan, the GAO said, citing U.S. defense officials.

"Officials attributed these shortfalls to competing U.S. priorities for Defense personnel, including the war in Iraq," GAO said.

The GAO warned, however, that the United States could be training and sustaining Afghan security forces for more than a decade at a cost of $2 billion year.

Matt again:


In Iraq, by contrast, it's been clear for a long time that a majority of people want us gone and the largest bloc of people who welcome our presence, the Kurds, don't believe in the existence of Iraq at all. In Iraq, the key to our ability to sustain our presence there is that the same internal divisions among Iraqis that are preventing political consolidation are also preventing the consolidation of a broad anti-American movement.

This part is true, but irrelevant to Afghanistan, because once again, COIN CANNOT be done by an outside foreign power - especially not in Afghanistan, a tribal society that has fought external armies for generations.

Matt:


In Afghanistan, the trend lines are pointing in the wrong direction but there's a real basis for the possibility of success.

Again, based on what? A complete lack of knowledge of the history and culture of Afghanistan? Coupled with a complete lack of knowledge of how US military strategy and tactics are useless in 4th Gen War? Coupled with a complete lack of knowledge of how Pakistan has been running the Taliban and Afghanistan for decades?

Here we have Matt doing his "roll over on his back and piss all over himself in desperate attempts to ingratiate" yet again. Some dilettante sends him an email citing platitudes and irrelevancies on the situation in Afghanistan and he falls over.

Read my lips. The US and NATO have already lost in Afghanistan. They are now trying to escalate the situation into Pakistan - which is far larger, far tougher, dislikes the US more and has NUKES. Get a goddamn clue, Matt.

"In Iraq, by contrast, it's been clear for a long time that a majority of people want us gone"

Does the elected mostly Shiite Iraqi government want us gone? Do the Sunni tribal leaders want us gone? No. In fact they are both asking us to stay.

Dave-that's not very useful, and it doesn't really refute much. We are propping up the government; we are their mealticket. So the fact that THEY want us to stick around is circular nonsense. We prop up people who want us around. And people who want us around give us the thumbs up.

Go look at the polling of what the people as a whole want. It's a simple message: get out, or set a timetable for getting out. And there is virtually zero support for long/indefinite occupation and/or permanent bases.

Can you find some sub-group who wants us to stay? sure. But you know damn well it's not representative of the rank and file Iraqis.

The opinion polls are at the core of what makes the Iraqi occupation so utterly farcical. The "100-years" crowd and the "the world would explode if we left" crowd always ignore that one basic fact: the people who will be left to face the consequences of our departure are the ones calling for it the loudest.

An interesting point in the cited polls is that a strong majority of the population support negotiation, and even power-sharing, with the Taliban. And how shall the Empire accomodate the Afghan people on this issue?

Good point, Steve. Karzai himself has suggested negotiating with the Taliban, or some factions of the Taliban, IIRC. I guess that makes him an "appeaser" and "terrorist sympathizer", according to the right wing nuts, instead of a guy who just wants to save his neck when the government falls again.

It will probably end up being as hard as getting the Sunni and the Shia In Iraq to "reconcile". And it's not something the US is likely to be good at achieving, given their abysmal failure in Iraq, Lebanon, and Palestine.

Did anyone even read the blog post? I am still staring at the lady in the photo. If they showed that photo to 18 year old boys to recruit them for enlistment, wow, I imagine there would never be any shortage of "volunteers".

I admit that I did not read the entry. I looked at the picture and then came to the comments to see if I was the only one who immediately fell in love.

This photo was not brought to you by Jim Webb.

C'mon, guys, the picture really isn't that good - and I've looked at the high res version, it's not much better - and she has a fucking helmet on. Nice face, but that's all one can see - and the lighting sucks.

Some of you people must be even more desperate than I am. Or your taste is seriously worse.

If you must, try this South Korean Special Forces trooper:
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x59/saw1986/rokfemalespecialforcesrw2.jpg

Otherwise, might want to read this article about how well adopted the female soldier is in the US military.

Rapists in the ranks
Sexual assaults are frequent, and frequently ignored, in the armed services.
By Representative Jane Harman
March 31, 2008
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-harman31mar31%2C0%2C5399612.story

The scope of the problem was brought into acute focus for me during a visit to the West Los Angeles VA Healthcare Center, where I met with female veterans and their doctors. My jaw dropped when the doctors told me that 41% of female veterans seen at the clinic say they were victims of sexual assault while in the military, and 29% report being raped during their military service.

This demonstrates the utter lack of "discipline" in the US military, despite the maunderings of our resident troll, Ford. If we really had a TRAINED military, this sort of thing would not happen. What we have are a bunch of dumbed-down morons who rape their fellow soldiers and shoot foreign civilians (when they aren't raping them as well.)

The caliber of the US military is pathetic. It's not much better than a bunch of Mongols in Genghis Khan's army. That was true in 1967-1970 when I was in the service and it appears to be true today.

we must be careful with words like 'misogyny.' it is not misogyny merely to say you find a woman beautiful. nor is it misogyny to focus on this beautiful woman than to respond to something else.

one important distinction is between 'misogyny' and 'patriarchy.' misogyny is hatred of women, which is much more heinous and harmful than patriarchy and patriarchism, even though the patriarchy that has been in control for the last few thousand years is perhaps a bit more insidious.

on that note: yeah, i also find her really beautiful.

I know a several of female fighter pilots who rival or exceed the one pictured.

Prove it!

Just a question: if a thousand years ago an Indian standing on the north bank of the Rio Grande river exchanged a few arrows with an Indian on the south bank of the same, should we treat the incident as the first Mexican-American war? Would that teach us much about immigration policies now?

If not, what's with all the memes about "Afghans have always thrown foreigners and their lackeys out." Almost all of Afghanistan's leaders have been propped by one foreign faction or another: Ahmad Shah (the founder of the Afghan empire and Afghanistan) was an officer in Nader Shah's Persian army, Dost Mohammad was propped during his second tenure by British force and subsidies, so was Abdur Rahman Khan (who rode into Afghanistan in Russian uniform but switched sides and received generous subsidies and consignment of guns from the British). This is not a historical novelty in Afghanistan; rather it is the rule, one which Afghans have learned to accommodate.

And how many of those countries are still in Afghanistan today?

The US is coming in. The Russians are trying to get back in by selling weapons to the Afghan Army according to a report the other day.

But the reality is no foreign country ends up with a permanent presence there.

The reality is also that there is almost always some sort of "civil war" going on there between the warlords and the central government.

The further reality is none of this matters a damn to the US. The presence of Al Qaeda or any other terrorist group there is also irrelevant and does not justify a military invasion, let alone "nation building" that cannot and does not take into account the history and culture of the country.

Your point is irrelevant.

The difference, as I see it, between Iraq and Afghanistan is that Afghans are in fact leading the "nation building" effort. The national development plans were created by Afghans for Afghans. I am proud to say I know some of the planners and I have not met better, smarter, more commited development workers anywhere.

They are fully aware of their country's history and the difficulties they face. When it is they who ask for security support, then I think we should help.

Among the difficulties is that the leadership of the security sector in Afghanistan is not forward looking. That often looks like an insurmountable obstacle, it is true. My friends there don't minimize the challenge, but they also talk about what they can do to change the situation.

Afghanistan is hard, but not impossible - with US assistance. Iraq is impossible because of US "assistance". Between them there is all the difference in the world.

NGO Worker: "When it is they who ask for security support, then I think we should help."

This is precisely why it can't help. Afghanistan is a country where the gun rules. Until that is changed, nothing will help. And the Catch-22 to that is that it cannot be changed from the outside by a foreign occupation OR foreign NGO assistance.

The fact that local Afghans want to change their country is good. But until they can work together to go up against the warlords and the political factions with guns like the Taliban, they will not succeed.

And none of that is relevant to the US national security interest. Again, the past or future presence of Al Qaeda in Afghanistan was not and will not be an adequate excuse to invade the country or concern ourselves with its internal situation. Al Qaeda can be handled in other ways.

RSH: I agree that foreign occupation won't change Afghanistan. However, the fact that outside assistance is a part of a local strategy for change is why it might work. Lots of Afghans - whole segments of the government included - are working together to break away from warlordism. Their analysis is that they need help, especially with security. They have asked for help.

Whether the help is being provided in the most effective way is open for discussion. Whether the help is ultimately in the national security interest of NATO and the US is also open to discussion.

But the change is being driven by Afghans.


Comments closed July 09, 2008.

Copyright © 2008 by The Atlantic Monthly Group. All rights reserved.