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Where Facts are Made-Up

01 Jun 2008 12:50 pm

Clark Hoyt, New York Times public editor, has a devastating rebuttal to the NYT's Edward Luttwak op-ed on Barack Obama being a Muslim apostate:

I interviewed five Islamic scholars, at five American universities, recommended by a variety of sources as experts in the field. All of them said that Luttwak’s interpretation of Islamic law was wrong. [...] Interestingly, in defense of his own article, Luttwak sent me an analysis of it by a scholar of Muslim law whom he did not identify. That scholar also did not agree with Luttwak that Obama was an apostate or that Muslim law would prohibit punishment for any Muslim who killed an apostate. [...] Luttwak made several sweeping statements that the scholars I interviewed said were incorrect or highly debatable [...] All the scholars argued that Luttwak had a rigid, simplistic view of Islam that failed to take into account its many strains and the subtleties of its religious law, which is separate from the secular laws in almost all Islamic nations.

As a blogger, I'm hardly in a position to dispute Luttwak's right to opine on matters about which he knows nothing. But if I were the editor of an op-ed page and I were interested in publishing a provocative opinion piece grounded in an interpretation of Islamic law, I would try to get a scholar of Islamic jurisprudence to write it. But of course if I were the editor of an op-ed page, I would think that one of my goals was to publish articles that inform, rather than mislead, my audience. The actual op-ed editors at the NYT and Washington Post have, however, made it abundantly clear over the years that they see misleading their audience as fine -- hence men like Bill Kristol and Charles Krauthammer get hired as columnists.

It does, however, make you wonder what these institutions are for. As means of acquiring information, they're useless -- the editors are indifferent to whether the author's purpose is to inform or to mislead. As entertainment, they're not very entertaining -- even a terrible movie like Crystal Skull is more fun than an op-ed column. Are they important profit centers for the failing businesses in which they're embedded? That seems unlikely.

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Comments (52)

opeds are a newspaper habit. in the age of blogging, they make zero economic sense: no one buys the times for kristol or the post for krauthammer, and truth be told, i doubt they make that much marginal impact on internet eyeballs either (at least in comparison to their cost).

someday, an intelligent publisher (ruling out pinch sulzberger and donald graham) will realize that there is no point at all in spending the kinds of money the very low productive oped pundit earns and rethink the whole enterprise.

meanwhile, will luttwak pay any professional price for being demonstrated to be a rigid, simplistic thinker? surely i jest....

These institutions are for propagating the right-wing views on US Middle East policy held by proprietors or editors and smearing anyone who looks like they might shake up US ME policy from its current right-wing position.

Consider this an example of Obama being lightly Lindberg-ed.

At some point in the past, newspaper executives missed the turnoff to the future.

The NYT and the rest of the corporate media continues its long run of making a mockery of journalism and spitting in the eye of the American people.

Bill Kristol and Charles Krauthammer get hired as columnists

We could count the neocons to get a credibility index, I guess. I suppose the index is even for the NYT and WaPo: two each, with Hiatt at WaPo and Brooks at NYT. Maybe we weight Hiatt as the editor of the page.

Op-ed pages in powerful newspapers have always preferred ideological desirability to factual or logical accuracy, and above all with the goal of maintaining hawkish views on foreign policy and free market fundamentalism domestically.

It wasn't about the money; it was about using one's publication's influence to get the results and the operating political environment desired. Or, at least, that's what a lot of publishers have said over the years, if that seems too megalomaniacal.

The part about them being exposed for it quite so quickly with so many being aware of the take-down -- that part's new.

The other day, the WaPo announced that it had offered early retirement buyouts to a bunch of its reporters, many of whom accepted - including topnotch reporters like Tom Ricks and Robin Wright.

If it offered similar buyouts to any of its editorial or op-ed writers, I sure missed it.

Quality reporting is a distinctive of a good newspaper. Informed commentary, on the other hand, is widely available for free on the Internet, and we swim in a veritable sea of uninformed commentary. With the exception of a few extremely insightful writers, it's hard to see how such commentary has much future as a distinctive anywhere.

The WaPo is discarding the wheat, and keeping the chaff.

Good points Matt. Just make sure not to go too far and wonder whether Op/Ed pages actually serve a propaganda function.

That would turn your interesting analysis into crazy, wooly-headed leftist fever swamp conspiracymongering!

APS

I think it's sort of useful to provide a forum for a fact-impaired neocon and then follow it up with a devastating rebuttal. Why not?

The purpose of Luttwak's op-ed was to launder the email Muslim smears. It succeeded in a limited way . Luttwakk and Pipes are both regarded as "serious" (albeit psycho) by the liberal establishment.

It makes one wonder why Rosenthal want Luttwakk's bogus meme to be circulated.

Luttwakk pretend-concern for Obama's safety was a bit too much.

The White House "spreads democracy" to oil-bearing countries of the Middle East.

In support of that endeavor, the New York Times spreads something else.


Uh, David Broder took the buyout at the Wash Post. Means little, though, cuz he'll continue as a "contract" employee. He's paid less and doesn't get benefits. But since he's old enough for Medicare, that doesn't matter.
So we can continue to look forward to his oh-so-reasonable opinionmongering.

It does, however, make you wonder what these institutions are for.

Social control.

Billmon would have been good on Luttwak. Matt plays it a little safe at times.

When I was an op-ed writer for the NYT writing about foreclosures, they fact-checked pretty well and requested annotations and copies of primary sources to back up my assertions. Then again, I am a small fry, so they may have felt a greater need to cover themselves by fact-checking. I am not surprised that there is a loosened standard of accuracy whenever you are talking about national electoral politics -- I wouldn't expect anything else when the gold standard is influenced by 24 hour cable news commentators.

I'm really moved and grateful to see this post. Since I converted to Islam four years ago I have been shocked to realize two things about my fellow human beings: first, that very few hesitate to opine on things they know nothing about, second that very few are interested in learning things that challenge the opinions they already have, and thirdly that we underestimate how differently (though not irreconcilably) different groups conceive of the world we all live in. As I have read articles about Islam in the papers and posts on blogs-- including a few blogs that are very well established indeed-- I've been amazed at the ignorant things that are said about Islam. Let me rephrase: ignorance about Islam isn't especially surprising, but the self-assured falsehoods and the intellectual laziness of many writers and publications is. I've largely given up the NYT and a certain Atlantic blogger after reading enough lazy, careless, and occasionally mean-spirited writing on Islam to make me think, "How can I take anything else he/she writes seriously? How can I be sure that other articles aren't similarly narrow and sloppy?"

It really saddens me. It's bad for the American conversation, it's bad for our nation's policy, and for me it's been a real eye-opener to the experiences of other marginalized groups whose voices aren't heard in the press.

will luttwak pay any professional price for being demonstrated to be a rigid, simplistic thinker? surely i jest....

I dunno... did he pay any price for writing the spectacularly wrong "The Endangered American Dream: How to Stop the United States From Being a Third World Country and How to Win the Geo-Economic Struggle for Industrial Supremacy" in 1994?

Funny how, after 8 or 12 years of GOP administrations, it always tends to feel like the country is in decline and falling apart. Time to put the grown ups back in charge, America.

"Billmon would have been good on Luttwak. Matt plays it a little safe at times."

I really miss the Whiskey Bar :(

Less-political and less-tech-friendly people are unlikely to seek out commentary/opinion from independent online sources. It's for these folks that newspapers still carry op-ed columns.

In general, I'd agree that papers should hire columnists with brains and integrity, who at least try to keep their facts straight and their arguments cohesive. But I LOVE the fact that William Kristol has a high-profile outlet for his special brand of nonsense.

Just imagine if WSJ hired the most disingenuously partisan, inane-argument-spewing left-wing jackass they could find, and presented this jackass as a plausible representative of liberal thought. That's sort of what NYT has done, in reverse; I've often wondered whether this was a deliberate decision on their part.

Seriously - every time he speaks or writes, out pops something laugh-out-loud ludicrous. He undermines neocon credibility in a way that the more subtle writers never quite manage to do. (And someone should start a LOL-Kristol website, if they haven't already.)

Agree about Billmon.

Maybe, Matt, if you think of these practices as gaudy advertisements for the amazing open-mindedness and "truth for all, without fear or favor," anti-ideological pretensions of the New York Times and the Washington Post... they make a little more sense.

I wish I could find it now, but more than 10 years ago, Brill's Content magazine did a little front of the book feature asking various newspapers what their editorial page philosophy was. The editorial page editors of the Wall Street Journal, the San Diego Union-Tribune, the Cleveland Plain Dealer, were willing to give it a shot and characterize their general philosophy. But when it came to the Times and the Post, the Times would not answer and the Post said, hilariously, "independent."

That's a clue. Even in the place where you are allowed to--supposed to--have an ideology, these two institutions imagine themselves as "between" parties, neither this nor that. But also: fearless. In their minds it takes guts to publish a Luttwak.

Somewhere newspaper publishers and editors started to believe in the Sports Illustrated practice of "Artificial Controversy" as a means to raise readership. They've instead made newspapers irrelevant.

What is hilarious is that the news media doesn't discuss Edward Luttwak's background. Luttwak , in the past, has been a ..er.."consultant" to certain US government agencies.

He is most known for a handy little guidebook he wrote in 1968 -- titled "Coup d'État: A Practical Handbook". Hee hee

One of the techniques of the coup d'etat is black propaganda. Which some people in the US government (cough CIA cough) consider to be an Art Form.

Luttwak said the scholars with whom I spoke were guilty of “gross misrepresentation” of Islam

Yeah, because obviously a guy named Edward N. Luttwak is going to have tons more expertise in the subtleties of Islamic law then men named Khaled Abou El Fadl and Abdullahi Ahmed An-Na’im!

Are they important profit centers for the failing businesses in which they're embedded?

I don't know how closely revenue correlates with popularity, but the op-eds for the NYT are invariably among the top 10 "Most Emailed." You have to figure that lots of page views means a premium for ads appearing on those pages.

It's sort of surprising that Matt thought that was devastating reply to Luttwak.

A devasting reply to Luttwak would have Luttwak and his allies crying foul and attacking Hoyt for weeks and months.

Hoyt waits several paragraphs before gently correcting Luttwak with some low-credibility-with-the-public Muslim scholars.

Since when does the NY Times care about the opinions of partisan religious scholars?

It matters little that Luttwak was wrong and he engaged in insinuation and black proganda. His point was to launder and render more upscale the internet rumors by using half truths, lies, and insinuation.

Did Hoyt make him feel the heat? No.

"
It does, however, make you wonder what these institutions are for.

Social control.
"

Or to use the more euphonious phrase of a very smart man, Manufacturing Consent.

But also: fearless. In their minds it takes guts to publish a Luttwak.

Or: lazy as hell.

Jay, any insights into what it takes to get a NYT op-ed printed? What's the process here? Does the NYT receive a pile of 700-worders that are solicited by the usual suspect foundations and orgs?

In fairness, Luttwak has come up with a few nuggets in the past. E.g, this excerpt from
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v23/n09/letters.html

"Saddam Hussein's more active enemies believed that there was some dark and sinuous plot at work when they were first exposed to the CIA operators who were supposed to help them.

It was only after years of bitter experience that they finally accepted the simpler truth that behind the façade of unbelievable incompetence there was only unbelievable incompetence "
----------
hee hee hee. Sounds like a man who's been left behind on a hostile beach a time or two.

MY wrote:

"As a blogger, I'm hardly in a position to dispute Luttwak's right to opine on matters about which he knows nothing."

To dispute his [Luttwak or anybody else for that matter] right to engage in bullshit [i.e. to opine on matters about which he knows nothing]...of course not, but his responsibilities toward integrity and responsible interchange, give me a break.

Luttwak was irresponsible, the Oped editor was irresponsible, that is ubnless one thinks bullshitting is a responsible activity. Luttwak is ostensibly a scholar. Footnotes and citations, end of story.

godoggo : "I think it's sort of useful to provide a forum for a fact-impaired neocon and then follow it up with a devastating rebuttal. Why not?"

Yes, if the Op-ed editor allowed that to happen. However, Hoyt writes:

"Shipley, the Op-Ed editor, said he regretted not urging Luttwak to soften his language about possible assassination, given how sensitive the subject is. But he said he did not think the Op-Ed page was under any obligation to present an alternative view, beyond some letters to the editor."

"I do not agree. With a subject this charged, readers would have been far better served with more than a single, extreme point of view. When writers purport to educate readers about complex matters, and they are arguably wrong, I think The Times cannot label it opinion and let it go at that."

---
So you see....

How strange that Matt thinks this is a devastating reply.

What we see is that each of the pieces is controverted. Only some Muslims believe that Obama should be considered a Muslim because his father was Muslim; there isn't total agreement. Only some Muslims believe that the law of apostasy would apply to someone merely born into the faith. And only in some countries is apostasy prosecuted, and even there it is uneven, and some are merely imprisoned and not executed. Yes, yes, yes, it's all very complicated, the question of whether Obama is an apostate who should be killed. The answer isn't clear. That's devastating, isn't it? (What would a pro-Obama website say?)

Prof. Luttwaks' rantings here about Senator Obamas' alleged Muslim ties and his bogus claims about Islam should surprise nobody. Prof. Luttwak likes to pontificate on subjects he knows nothing about. Several years ago, he published an op-ed somewhere where he claimed that Saudi Arabia could produce 22 million barrels of oil per day, a claim supported by not a single oil geologist in the world.

Hands and feet cut off, nails stuck in their eyes, and left to die of dehydration was the fate for ex-Muslims under the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

It was the practice of the Prophet to have ex-Muslims mutilated then left to die, according to the sahih hadith, the most trusted transmission of what he said and did.

The history of Prophet-authorized mutilation and execution is recorded in Muhammad ibn Isma’il al-Bukhari, The Translation of the Meanings of Sahih Al Bukhari, Arabic-English, vol. 4 trans. Muhammad Muhsin Khan (Chicago: Distributed by Kazi Publicatoins, c. 1976-1979) Book 52, Number 261:

A group of eight men from the tribe of Ukil came to the Prophet and then they found the climate of Medina unsuitable for them. So, they said, “O Allah’s Apostle! Provide us with some milk.” Allah’s Apostle said, “I recommend that you should join the herd of camels.” So they went and drank the urine and the milk of the camels (as a medicine) till they became healthy and fat.

Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels, and they became unbelievers after they were Muslims.

When the Prophet was informed by a shouter for help, he sent some men in their pursuit, and before the sun rose high, they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails which were heated and passed over their eyes, and they were left in the Harra (i.e. rocky land in Medina). They asked for water, and nobody provided them with water till they died.

(Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 261)
http://www.muslimaccess.com/sunnah/hadeeth/bukhari/052.html

This is a shame. Luttwak's The Grand Strategy of the Roman Empire was one of the more insightful pieces of military historical analysis I've ever read.

Apparently there's some sort of link between specializing in ancient military history and turning into a right-wing crank.

Wait a second, the Christian Science Monitor made basically the same point two weeks ago:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0519/p09s02-coop.html

From the article by Shireen K. Burki:

...The first type [of apostate] is murtad milli, one who converted to Islam and later renounced the faith. The second, and most egregious, type is murtad fitri. It refers to a person born of a Muslim father who renounces his birthright. Two recent examples of the latter are Magdi Allam (a male Egyptian who converted to Catholicism in Italy) and Ayaan Hirsi Ali (Somali-born woman who's now an atheist). Both now face death
threats.

...According to Islamic jurisprudence, children of a Muslim father – even an apparently nonpracticing one, such as Obama's father, and irrespective of the mother's faith – are automatically Muslims. Most Muslims around the world agree: A child of a Muslim father is a Muslim. Period.

Should Obama become US commander in chief, there is a strong likelihood that Al Qaeda's media arm, As-Sahab, will exploit his background to argue that an apostate is leading the global war on terror (read: attacks against fellow Muslims). This perception would be leveraged to galvanize sympathizers into action.

The NYT op-ed isn't just one guys opinion. And for an ombudsman of the NYT to suddenly espouse "accuracy" is rather ridiculous.

OK lets see what Christianity thinks of Apostasy:

Deuteronomy

Chapter 13

KJV

"
.......
6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:

~9 But thou shalt surely kill him; ~

thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.

"

Alright. All the Abrahamic faiths are similar with regard to Apostasy. The only difference is that there are enlightened Christians today and there are foolish christians. Fortunately enlightened ones far out number foolish ones. Islam is still struggling with its own balance today.

Why:

Does the media ignore the precepts of Islam by falsely inferring some sort of equivalency between Christ Jesus, and Muhammad?

I've been studying the Koran in order to become informed by the facts.

Here they are: Muhammad teaches it's ok to marry a 9 year old child (pedophilia), to murder, to lie, to torture, to treat women like dogs, to kill anyone who does not believe that he is a prophet of God. It's all right there for the reading.

No wonder muslims hate Christians. Christ's teachings are the antithesis to muhammad's.

Christ taught: Love God, and love fellow man. Hmmmm, no moral equivalence that I can see.

Of course, I'm only interested in the facts.


"... hence men like Bill Kristol and Charles Krauthammer get hired as columnists."
Be fair, now. You forgot Maureen Dowd. Without a doubt, she belongs at the top of the list.

I stop buying newspapers, years ago when I was downtown El Paso and saw this one person holding a sign protesting a political endorsement. Upon crossing I heard someone say "This poor soul has the paper throwed on his front porch every morning".

Nice going Matt! Truth be told.

Here we have yet another neocon-zionist who is allowed free reign with slander, innuendo and outright lies in mostly New York area media. It has been obvious for months that this influential cabal has made a deal with the Clintons to put the interests of, not America, but the inflexible elements of peace hating right wing Israeli and dual citizenship zionist-Americans 1st.

We saw a similar unholy union in the run-up to the wrongly placed war in Iraq when zionist influenced media (I dare you to deny it) held their noses and assisted the grandson of a Nazi business partner (really the son), George Bush in carrying out his true mission, that of making his daddy and pals even wealthier by starting a war they all could profit from through arms and oil.
Right Wing intolerants seized control of the debate through loud screeds and charges of betrayal and disloyalty to either 2 countries or religions (see what Daniel Pipes was doing during this time and recall Douglas Feith's lying contribution as well as Wolfowitz bringing Iraq 1st into a cabinet neeting after 9/11.....Bill Kristol, Richard Perle, the list of traitors is easy to find). These individuals have betrayed the overwhelming majority of loyal American Jews, who've a long history of progressive and liberal contributions, in the same way that Cheney and the neocons have betrayed us all. A complicit media helped grease the path because Iraq was then considered Israel's biggest threat (certainly not Americas') and now, if (and maybe even without) they can assist in lying and slandering McCain into office they feel that Israel's latest threat, Iran, will be dealt with.

Please know that an Israel controlled by rightwingers will always have enemies waiting in the wings for its cash cow, America to bully. Know that as long as this persists the U. S. will only have an increasing amount of enemies as well. Know too that the media, such as it is increasingly controlled by a precious few, won't touch this subject for fear of unemployment or the now watered down charge of being anti-semite.

When did lying become acceptable here? The rightwing's lead from the top down now oozes throughout our society. Watch oil companies advertise how eco-friendly they are as they destroy the planet, Toyota builds cars out of sticks and leaves and Subaru's new "forester" is "made with love." This phoney "trickle down economy" is, in reality a tinkle down economy. Lies don't stand up well in the light of day. It's time to drag these dirtbags into the light ending getting pissed on by getting pissed off.

Re Richard

Is Mr. Don Williams now using the moniker Richard or is Richard just a Don Williams clone?

Tradamerica claimed:

"Muhammad teaches it's ok to marry a 9 year old child (pedophilia), to murder, to lie, to torture, to treat women like dogs, to kill anyone who does not believe that he is a prophet of God. It's all right there for the reading."

None of the above is in the Koran or in the teachings of the prophet of Islam. Can you provide chapter and verse numbers so that readers may check them out?

Neither did the Prophet teach hatred for Christians. You cannot produce a single verse in the Koran or a saying of the Prophet that supports your claim that Muslims are taught to hate Christians.

You write that "Christ taught: Love God, and love fellow man." True. Christ also taught truthfulness. Be truthful if you are a true follower of Christ and don't make false allegations against Muslims.

Hatred is fostered by people who spread falsehoods against others. Share the love that Christ taught, not falsehoods.


Re inasamaale

It should be noted that the Hebrew bible also says that it's OK to march into a town like Jericho after a siege and put the inhabitants therein to the sword. When it comes to nastiness, the Quran has nothing on the Hebrew bible.

About the equivalence between Christianity and Islam and Judaism. Oh yes..... Oh Yes.. they have far too many things in common than many people would care to admit.

Those that accuse Mohammed of peadophilia conveniently forget that Lot slept with his own young daughters. Genesis 19:31-36

Abrahamic religions rose in a region with similar cultural ethos at a long lost time, when modern values were not existent. In those times, people were barbaric and primitive judged by todays standards. Christianity certainly does not escape the charges that people accuse Islam of. Dont forget the church burnt many people at STAKE not a long time back for being heretics.

Christianity and Islam are chip of the same block. The difference is Renessiance arose in Europe and it is taking some time before it reaches Arabia.

SLC, your political insight has all the depth of "W's" curiosity. Your contributions here suggest you may have been the author of the profound Republican slogan of 2004..."flip-flop, flip-flop. You are doubtless the type that exits elevators leaving behind gaseous emmission the memory of which stimulates your intellect for days.

If you've a coherent arguement or rebuttal to my post then man-up otherwise return to grandma's basement where your board is exchanged for rinsing out her Depends, a situation prompted by that ankle monitor and the "incident" with the little boy down the street.

Just another internet coward appreciated by an audience of one.

SLC, your political insight has all the depth of "W's" curiosity. Your contributions here suggest you may have been the author of the profound Republican slogan of 2004..."flip-flop, flip-flop. You are doubtless the type that exits elevators leaving behind gaseous emmission the memory of which stimulates your intellect for days.

If you've a coherent arguement or rebuttal to my post then man-up otherwise return to grandma's basement where your board is exchanged for rinsing out her Depends, a situation prompted by that ankle monitor and the "incident" with the little boy down the street.

Just another internet coward appreciated by an audience of one.

Hoyt holds Luttwak to a different standard than Hamas spokesman Ahmed Yousef, who contributed an op-ed to the Times last year. In that case, Hoyt wrote, "I agree that Yousef's piece should have run, even though his version of reality is at odds with the one I understand from news coverage."

Typical lefty soft-gloves handling of America's haters and terror supporters & tougher critiques of America's defenders...

What? You've failed to notice that the principal purpose of the Post and Times editorial pages is to curry favor with politicians and corporate leaders? And that the time-honored way to do so is with high-toned editorials and op-eds that sneer at the wrong-headedness of the little people?

This is what they DO. They are (fading) servants to the privileged. What utter snobbery to cling to the archaic "Mr. Rove" and "Mrs. Clinton!" What arrogance to repeatedly publish the same "outside" bloviators! Accuracy, variety, and sound policy ideas are really beside the point.

inasamaale is practicing the "lie" as taught in the Koran.

There is no moral relativism between Christ Jesus and muhammad. Christ is the Prince of peace. muhammad the prince of lies, murder and war. It's all right there in the koran, should any of our journalist scholars(?) care to report the truth.

inasamaale is practicing the "lie" as taught in the Koran.

There is no moral relativism between Christ Jesus and muhammad. Christ is the Prince of peace. muhammad the prince of lies, murder and war. It's all right there in the koran, should any of our journalist scholars(?) care to report the truth.

Further:

those who use Old Testament writings to compare Jesus with muhammad are either purposefully lying, or ignorant or both.

Simply compare muhammads teachings with Christs -- if one is an honest arbiter of truth, the conclusion is moot.


Comments closed June 15, 2008.

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