A Jesse Helms Anecdote

Here's a good one:

I was a senior when Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated in 1968. Roughly 2,000 of us joined a vigil on the quad for several days. The vigil was an instrument of our grieving and a voice for racial justice on Duke's campus. Higher wages and union recognition for the non-academic employees—cooks, food-servers, maids, and janitors, most of whom were black—became the focal issue. We sat peacefully and largely silent day and night, studying for finals, listening to Dr. King's speeches and singing "We Shall Overcome" every hour. To this day I count it as a major event in my spiritual formation.

Jesse Helms came on the television and said that all of the students sitting on the quad at Duke should ask their parents if it would be all right for their son or daughter to "marry a Negro" (Duke students were practically all white in those days). Unless the student's parents approved of that prospect, Helms advised, he or she should go back to class. We all took the words as vindication for our cause.

Again, one could imagine a white supremacist television commentator changing his positions and apologizing for some of his past actions (I believe such puny liberals as George Wallace did this) and moving on. But Jesse Helms didn't do that. And George Bush, Mitch McConnell, National Review, and the Heritage Foundation admire him greatly.

Comments

I find this anecdote a fairly good rebuttal to anyone who thinks we should have "respect for the dead" and thus not speak ill of Helms. Helms' "respect" for Martin Luther King Jr. is a good example of why whitewashing his memory should be acceptable to none, and why there is no reason to afford him the respect that he refused to give to an entire race of people.

Posted by J.W. Hamner | July 7, 2008 2:53 PM

To our great joy, MC Hawking got what he wanted.

Posted by SP | July 7, 2008 2:59 PM

But Jesse Helms didn't do that. And George Bush, Mitch McConnell, National Review, and the Heritage Foundation admire him greatly.

And you are shocked at this? I just wish someone would bring this up to Michael Steele, Ken Blackwell, Clarence Thomas, Lynn Swann, J.C. Watts or Harold Ford, Jr. Their reaction would be priceless.

Posted by Joe Klein's conscience | July 7, 2008 3:03 PM

JK'sC:

I don't feel like looking it up--how did Helms vote on the Thomas appointment?

Posted by mark f | July 7, 2008 3:06 PM

I have no problem recounting Helms' pronounced shortcomings upon the news of his death. People who seek or sought great power over other human beings should always have their grave faults publicly discussed. That's why I also had no problem discussing the fact, on the day he was diagnosed with cancer, that Senator Kennedy had wrongfully and remorselessly killed an innocent woman, and the lack of remorse was purely due to the pursuit of career advancement.

Posted by Will Allen | July 7, 2008 3:09 PM

Jesse was a big, fat prick.

Posted by Bajsa | July 7, 2008 3:10 PM

I looked it up. Helms voted to confirm him.

Posted by mark f | July 7, 2008 3:13 PM

And George Bush, Mitch McConnell, National Review, and the Heritage Foundation admire him greatly.

I think the list is probably substantially longer than that. Other people--DeLong notes Frum and Brooks, for example--just stayed silent. But I wouldn't infer disapproval from silence; it's just a "not present" vote meant to leave no record.

Posted by SomeCallMeTim | July 7, 2008 3:18 PM

Shorter Will Allen-

Sure, the leaders of the conservative movement admire a virulent and hateful bigot, but, more importantly, I think that Ted Kennedy killed a woman 35 years ago.

Posted by rickm | July 7, 2008 3:21 PM

Helms didn't do that because he didn't have to in order to keep his job.

Posted by Davebo | July 7, 2008 3:22 PM

There is a very useful Helms / Kennedy contrast mentioned.

Helms demonstrated (as far as we know) an upstanding private life (as far as scandals go) and a venomous, destructive public life (even leading to the deaths of thousands and thousands of innocent people).

Kennedy demonstrated an occasionally destructive and scandalous private life (even leading to the death of an innocent person) while leading an upstanding, enormously helpful public life.

Posted by El Cid | July 7, 2008 3:23 PM

I looked it up. Helms voted to confirm him.

I'm not sure why that's surprising. Helms was a Savimbi fan as well. And I don't think that demonstrates anything particularly good about his views either.

Posted by SomeCallMeTim | July 7, 2008 3:27 PM

There is a very useful Helms / Kennedy contrast mentioned.

And Vitter, Craig, Cunningham, and Ney were the worst of both worlds.

Posted by LFC | July 7, 2008 3:28 PM

Shorter rickm-

When I agree with a politicians ideology, I'll disingenuously say that someone "thinks" the politician wrongfully killed an innocent woman without remorse, when it is plainly true. Also, after 35 years, the remorseless killing of an innocent woman becomes trivia because there is nothing I put a higher value on than ideology. What's a mere woman's life after all, when there are elections to be won for a politician I agree with?

Posted by Will Allen | July 7, 2008 3:32 PM

I'm a North Carolinian, a Ron Paul-type conservative, and I was always quite ashamed of Jesse Helms. Yet, he did do something for my family, and I feel like there should be at least one anecdote from a person who is not a Jesse-lover the shows him in a different light.

My grandfather fought in World War II, took part in the Battle of the Bulge. He was injured and received two purple hearts for his service. He returned and worked as a share cropper (yeah, that's how we actually treated our war heroes in those days, some things never change) and received a small sum from the VA for the rest of his life as, best as I can tell, a payment for his injuries. After he died (around 1980) my grandmother stopped receiving these checks--as a widow she was entitled to them--and got the run-around from the VA. Illiterate, she couldn't make out the forms she needed to fill out, and when my father tried to help her out, the VA gave him the run-around too. My father eventually got fed up and called Helms in DC, talked to him personally and told him the situation. The next week, my grandmother got a check from the VA, covering both the normal amount and all the missed checks going back to my grandfather's death. My father, who is, to this day, one of those straight party Democratic ticket guys, voted for Helms in the next election.

I don't know, maybe it was just a small-scale PR move. Maybe if we were black he wouldn't have done it. But, deep down, maybe he had some good in him.

Posted by Matt S | July 7, 2008 3:35 PM

Considering the reaction to Pinochet's death, I'm not surprised at the reaction to a figure like Helms.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NDQxNTJlM2M4OTRhOGJhNTMzNTkyNDQ2YmYzMTU3ZTU=

Posted by Hume's Ghost | July 7, 2008 3:38 PM

Considering the reaction to Pinochet's death, I'm not surprised at the reaction to a figure like Helms.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NDQxNTJlM2M4OTRhOGJhNTMzNTkyNDQ2YmYzMTU3ZTU=

Posted by Hume's Ghost | July 7, 2008 3:40 PM

Matt S,

Big whoop, he did the same thing any other Senator would have done.

He probably left 20% tips on his meals too.

Exhibiting basic human decency most of the time doesn't cancel all the evil he did.

Posted by eric k | July 7, 2008 3:40 PM

Matt S, it is my observation that many long-term senators, regardless of their party affiliation or ideology, manage to stay in office as long as they have because they are very conscientious about constituent services.

Posted by Tyro | July 7, 2008 3:45 PM

Big whoop, he did the same thing any other Senator would have done.

Might be true, but so what? It mattered a hell of a lot to that family, it sounds like. He offered it as a positive anecdote, and it is one.

Posted by SomeCallMeTim | July 7, 2008 3:52 PM

But, Matt S, that's basic constituency service.

That's a little like pointing out that the guy who showed up at my house last week when the water main burst was a virulent racist and pedophilic child murderer, but you know, he picked up the phone when I called, came and fixed my water main, so I guess he can't be all bad.

Posted by McKingford | July 7, 2008 3:57 PM

There's a long list of quotes from conservatives eulogizing Helms as well as his own words over at Obsidian Wings. In summary, he was a flaming asshole, a bigot, a loudmouth, and a direct detriment to the interests of this country and its citizens.

I just hope that he was aware enough to understand that Barack Obama may well be our next president, and that gay marriage is legal in California. Who knows, maybe that's what put him over the edge. One can only hope that is so, and that he died of despair for the future of his white power world.

Goodbye to bad rubbish.

Posted by LFC | July 7, 2008 4:03 PM

To defend Matt S., I would point out that not all senators' offices are created equal. Here in MA Kennedy's office has a much, much better repuation on this score than Kerry's. Perhaps Helms was particularly effective in that regard as well.

Now I will resume dancing on that hideous human being's grave.

Posted by Andruw | July 7, 2008 4:23 PM

Will Allen -- "remorseless killing of an innocent woman..."

OK, here's something I don't understand. The plain, straightforward reading of the Chappaquiddick incident is that Kennedy was driving drunk, his passenger was killed in the accident, and Teddy fled the scene because he was some combination of too drunk and/or too scared to come clean. This is scumbag behavior, to be sure, and the sort of thing that should result in the driver being held criminally liable for a wrongful death and receiving a brief stint in jail. But calling this a "remorseless killing" is a bridge too far, so to speak.

It wasn't until fairly recently that I came to understand that right-wing Kennedy-haters have an entirely different view of the incident. Apparently, it is "plainly true" to some folk that Kennedy murdered his mistress in cold blood and covered it up with a car wreck. This does explain some of the "history's greatest monster" type insults that are frequently hurled at Teddy. But it seems roughly as credible to me as Hillary Clinton's vicious murder of Vince Foster.

Posted by LaFollette Progressive | July 7, 2008 4:27 PM

Will, it's not really "shorter" if it's twice as long and four times as turgid as the post it's summarizing.

Posted by Brittain33 | July 7, 2008 4:44 PM

A tidbit regarding Helms and the kind of thing he worried about: When the Fair Housing Act was amended in 1988 to protect people with disabilities, he (I'm told it was him, I wasn't there) got the following inserted in the legislation: Neither the term "individual with handicaps" nor the term "handicap" shall apply to an individual solely because that individual is a transvestite.

The funny part is that the compilers of the US Code apparently were too embarrassed to put this in the text. It's in there as a footnote.

Posted by roac | July 7, 2008 4:55 PM

holy shit, roac. I thought you were joking but there it is, right on the DOJ website. Does anyone know if there is a simple way to search the text of all legislation for the word transvesite? That would be a fun project!

Posted by drjimcooper | July 7, 2008 5:06 PM

Shorter Will Allen: Harvey Gantt was a commie.

Posted by ed | July 7, 2008 5:18 PM

LaFollette, true remorse requires a frank acknowledgement of the nature of the offense, to those wronged, which includes, when a crime is committed, the public. Kennedy was remorseless. People who remorselessly and wrongfully kill the innocent should never have their offense overlooked, no matter how much time has passed, or what has occurred in the interim.

If Senator Kennedy were to ever summon the grace to express remorse, I'd be happy to not believe that the name Kopechne should be mentioned in the first paragraph of any news piece or commentary that has an overview of Kennedy's life and career. When his cancer was diagnosed, I was struck by how the overwhelming response was to say kind and sentimental words regarding Kennedy's career, with nary a mention of the small matter of a wholly innocent woman who was, yes, remorselessly killed by Kennedy. I thought this was an example of a common travesty in our celebrity and power-obssessed culture. The powerful are allowed to to do great harm to the less powerful, and if enough time passes, the powerful never even have to acknowledge the nature of their acts before people start to fawn over them again.

Posted by Will Allen | July 7, 2008 5:28 PM

Well, Will, when Laura Bush dies, I'm sure you'll be the first to point out that she remorselessly killed her boyfriend.

Will, you provide more evidence that every instance of Republican sin and destruction is reflexively countered with, "Look! Over there! Ted Kennedy!"

Posted by Tyro | July 7, 2008 5:35 PM

ed, I have no opinion on Harvey Gantt. I rather suspect that Jesse Helms was a disgusting bigot who had the virtue of being a staunch anti-communist, much like, say, Henry Wallace was disgustingly soft on communism while having the virtue of not being terribly racist.

Posted by Will Allen | July 7, 2008 5:37 PM

Does anyone know if there is a simple way to search the text of all legislation for the word transvesite?

I can do it because I have access to Westlaw. I might. Tomorrow.

Posted by roac | July 7, 2008 5:38 PM

Tyro, I don't know the details of Laura Bush's accidenrt. If she failed to acknowledge the nature of her behavior before and after the accident, then I certainly would support unceasing mention of the accident. Wouldn't you?

Posted by Will Allen | July 7, 2008 5:42 PM

Will Allen, I think you're just grasping at straws, in the way that many desperate people do, to scream "Look! Over there! Ted Kennedy!" rather than aknowledge the demented immoral evil embedded in policies that people like Jesse Helms supported. In short, it's a distraction. And considering that Helm's supposed anti-Communism manifested itself only in the form of opposition to civil rights (which he believed was Communist) and support for the murder of nuns, it's hard to call this a virtue. Helm's supposed anti-Communism was rooted merely in his support for the economic and racial apartheid of his day, not in some sort of love or support of freedom of life and religion.

Posted by Tyro | July 7, 2008 5:47 PM

Right Will, a lifetime of bigotry leading to thousands of dead is exactly the same as single drunk driving accident that killed a single woman.

And you wonder why every thinks of you as a moron.

Posted by Not As Stupid As Will Allen | July 7, 2008 5:50 PM

Tyro, do you bend spoons, when your brain isn't employed reading the minds of others? I mentioned Kennedy here because I was struck by how Matthew had no problem recounting Helm's worst attributes upon his death (which, again, I have no problem with) but restricted himself to kind comments upon Kennedy's diagnosis, and when I wrote in that comments thread that there was a small matter of an innocent woman remorselessly and wrongfully killed by Kennedy that deserved mention, or to be more accurate, I wrote that I felt as bad about Kennedy as I would anyone else who wrongfully and remorselessly killed a woman, I was told how graceless I was. Like failing to mention Kopechne was more graceful.

Posted by Will Allen | July 7, 2008 5:55 PM

Will Allen ,where are you getting this crazy "remorselessly killed a woman" from? As I said, I don't see you claiming that Laura Bush "remorsefully killed a man."

And MattY isn't talking about some crime Helms committed. MattY is talking about the bankruptcy and evil of Helms's ideology and his remorseless opposition to civil rights and freedom.

Posted by Tyro | July 7, 2008 6:07 PM

Stil hearing a multitude of voices in your skull, huh, meathead? Can you write one single post that accurately characterizes what another person has written? Just one?

Posted by Will Allen | July 7, 2008 6:10 PM

Tyro, when a killer never expresses remorse, and remorse requires a frank and honest account of the nature of the wrongdoing, then he has remorselessly killed. Is this really so complicated for you?

Posted by Will Allen | July 7, 2008 6:15 PM

Will Allen, you object to Tyro's alleged mindreading yet you have no problem concluding that Kennedy is "remorseless."

This is what he said soon after the accident: "I regard as indefensible the fact that I did not report the accident to the police immediately."

I don't know whether he's ever more specifically said "I'm sorry" publicly or privately but to base an opinion on your belief that he is remorseless is a stretch, at best.

Posted by Edward, the mad shirt grinder | July 7, 2008 6:21 PM

Ted Kennedy vs. Jesse Helms!? Are you serious? That is your comparison? Wow.

I love it. More please. I'm ecstatic that conservatives are embracing an unrepentant racist, and calling him their party's Superhero... while demonizing the Liberal Lion. Let's put their legislative accomplishments up for a popular vote, eh?

Posted by J.W. Hamner | July 7, 2008 6:42 PM

Yeah, Edward, if you want to accept Kennedy's account of his alcohol consumption that night, well, the O.J. Simpson fan club has some membership slots available, too. Furthermore, as Time magazine noted in 1969, his statements, only one of which you excerpted, were contradictory, and filled with the typical politician's trick of claiming to be responsible, while giving reason for not being responsible. The statements which immediately prcede your excerpt are...

" My doctors informed me that I suffered a cerebral concussion as well as shock. I do not seek to escape responsibility for my actions by placing the blame either on physical or emotional trauma brought on by the accident or anything else"

....which nicely tries to have it both ways. This isn't true remorse.

Posted by Will Allen | July 7, 2008 6:45 PM

Will Allen, once again, you're engaging in stupid mindreading to declare someone "remorseless" in order to distract from the simply fact that Helms was an unrepentent racist.

Like many people, when backed into a corner and forced to confront the fact that they stood side by side with evil people like Jesse Helms, instead of accounting for their mistakes, scream, "look! over there! Ted Kennedy! And michael moore is fat!"

Pathetic, Will. Pathetic.

Posted by Tyro | July 7, 2008 6:52 PM

Hammer, I see literacy isn't your strong suit, either. Tell me, when I describe Helms as a "disgusting bigot", or support discussing his, in my words, "pronounced shortcomings", am I "embracing" Helms? Also, how is accurately describing Kennedy's behavior a way of "demonizing" him?

How have you come to a point in your life that you are willing to balance the remorseless and wrongful killing of an innocent woman with legislative accomplishments?

Posted by Will Allen | July 7, 2008 6:53 PM

Will Allen has no trouble reading minds. Well, actually, he has considerable difficulty reading at all. That's why he claims to know exactly what Kennedy was thinking and why he denies that the point of his mentioning Kennedy is to pretend that there is some moral equivalence between Kennedy and the scumbag Helms under question. It's also why he objects to anyone correctly interpreting his bile.

Then again, Will Allen is a big fan of people who actually get people killed - hell, it's the primary reason why he voted for Bush. If he can get brown people killed so we can control their oil - that's a good day. If he can defend unelected dictators in an attempt to smear a Democrat - that's a good day too.

If he weren't a total moron Will Allen might recognize that one day several decades in the past does not define Kennedy - bigotry, on the other hand, was the primary rationale for Helms' entire career.

Hell, even as someone who is not generally a supporter of wealthy drunk drivers (like Bush & Cheney), or those who kill others using their cars (Laura Bush), I hold no brief for Kennedy. Unlike Will Allen's "full throated support" of Helms (watch him whine here, he knows what specific idiocy this concerns), I only point out how weak Will's attack is.

Now, because he's a lying nitwit, he will deny that the reason he brought Kennedy up is to make the comparison - but there really isn't any other point in mentioning Kennedy. It's just one of those things someone with Will Allen's reflexive anti-Democrat ideology is forced to do.

Posted by Not As Stupid As Will Allen | July 7, 2008 6:53 PM

Meathead, you really are illiterate, aren't you? Remorse isn't a matter of Kennedy's inner thoughts. It is a matter of his public behavior. He plainly lied about his alcohol consumption. he obsfuscated ragarding his behavior after the accident.

Incerease the Thorazine dosage, meathead. The voices are screaming now, aren't they? Also, keep living the stolen oil-based high life, ya' ol' phony, you!

Posted by Will Allen | July 7, 2008 7:00 PM

Tyro, please tell me you aren't as stupid as the meathead, and thus believe that remorse is detected by judging inner thoughts?

Posted by Will Allen | July 7, 2008 7:05 PM

I am old enough to have lived through Jesse Helms idea of America. It was an ugly, hurtful place. Lynchings, beatings, forced share cropping, a racist legal system.

It is not surprising that the Conservative Right admires Helms since the burdens of pre-civil rights America never weighed on them. It simply was not a factor for them.

As Moms Mabely, the comedian, said about one of her many comedic husbands... "They say don't say nuthin about the dead, if you cain't say nuthin good. He's dead. Good!"

Posted by plainbrown1 | July 7, 2008 7:39 PM

I am old enough to have lived through Jesse Helms idea of America. It was an ugly, hurtful place. Lynchings, beatings, forced share cropping, a racist legal system.

It is not surprising that the Conservative Right admires Helms since the burdens of pre-civil rights America never weighed on them. It simply was not a factor for them.

As Moms Mabely, the comedian, said about one of her many comedic husbands... "They say don't say nuthin about the dead, if you cain't say nuthin good. He's dead. Good!"

Posted by plainbrown1 | July 7, 2008 7:41 PM

Will Allen:

A little proof reading would have allowed you to spell my name correctly. Also note that I never addressed any comments to you in my statement... on purpose. I was speaking of conservatives in general, not you specifically because your ego seems large enough to be getting along with.

As far as your allegedly "substantive" point, I don't have much fondness for conspiracy theories. If you have evidence that should send Ted Kennedy to jail, then I urge you to come forward with it. Otherwise, why is it you must resort to rumors and innuendo? Is it because you actually have no reasonable argument against his life's work? I think it is. This is a common failing of conservatives... nobody likes your ideas, so demonize your opponents via made up nonsense. Do you forward "Obama is a Muslim" e-mail as well?

Posted by J.W. Hamner | July 7, 2008 7:41 PM

I am old enough to have lived through Jesse Helms idea of America. It was an ugly, hurtful place. Lynchings, beatings, forced share cropping, a racist legal system.

It is not surprising that the Conservative Right admires Helms since the burdens of pre-civil rights America never weighed on them. It simply was not a factor for them.

As Moms Mabely, the comedian, said about one of her many comedic husbands... "They say don't say nuthin about the dead, if you cain't say nuthin good. He's dead. Good!"

Posted by plainbrown1 | July 7, 2008 7:43 PM

J.W. Hamner, our friend Will Allen doesn't have much truck with substance, evidence, logic, reading comprehension, or even common decency. Hell, here's a man (I assume, he's been posting for long enough and claims to have been old enough to vote for Bush both times) who claims that Bush's unprovoked assault on the Iraqi people that has killed hundreds of thousands and displaced millions actually saved millions of lives.

It would be a funny story if it weren't so pathetic. When pressed he finally admitted that there was actually zero evidence for his prediction. So because he has a vivid imagination, but little in the way of thinking skills, he supported the slaughter of Iraqis. And you should hear him go on and on in his support for Cambodian strongman Lon Nol. It's like he has some kind of fetish for people like this who take power by force of arms.

Posted by Not As Stupid As Will Allen | July 7, 2008 7:52 PM

Here are 21 people who are thanking Will Allen for his brilliant understanding of war and its consequences.

How lucky they count themselves that they aren't oppressed by Saddam Hussein.

Posted by Not As Stupid As Will Allen | July 7, 2008 8:04 PM

Will Allen remorselessly supports torture and the murder of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis - all led by his heroes Dumbya and Dickless.

No wonder he loved Jesse Helms.

Posted by MoeLarryAndJesus | July 8, 2008 12:14 AM

meathead, are you still a member of the Pol Pot fan club? Or were you also as stupid as you assert the patriot you slander of being, George McGovern?

Hamner, I apologize for not having my glasses on. Now run off to the O.J. Simpson fan club meeting..... Never convicted!

Now, as to your employment of logic, since I was the person who raised the name of Kennedy in this thread, it is reasonable to imply that you were lumping me in with the group you mention, when you write....

"Ted Kennedy vs. Jesse Helms!? Are you serious? That is your comparison? Wow.

I love it. More please....."

It's bad enough when you can't understand the plain implication of others' posts, but when it gets to the point that you can't understand the implications of your own posts, well, help is available.

Posted by Will Allen | July 8, 2008 12:21 AM

Whoa whoa guys. You're bashing on Will Allen for supporting a reckless war in Iraq that has led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, but you may not be aware that Ted Kennedy remorselessly killed a woman decades ago.

And we can all tell which is the bigger crime here.

Posted by cd6 | July 8, 2008 12:38 AM

Will Allen remorselessly supports torture and the murder of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis

And yet this disgusting thug imagines himself a hero to the people of Iraq. It's as if, like his fellow morons on this board, he imagines time stopped in 1992 and nothing had changed. That the sanctions that those like him supported for so long had no effects - except to provide him that "humanitarian" backstop once all of his idiot theories of why Saddam Hussein was a threat to the national security of the United States were proven to be the lies that everyone with a lick of sense know they were from the beginning (sorry Matt).

But then that's why Will is here. To provide for all of us a shining example of what blind ideology does to a man. It allows him to believe that a hard-core racist, one whose life was defined by that racism, is somehow comparable to Ted Kennedy, rather than the more appropriate Ted Bundy. It is Will's rigid adherence to ideology regardless of the facts that makes him a laughingstock wherever he goes.

Speaking of going, one is saddened to think that Will Allen will never go to Iraq personally to gather up the thanks of that grateful nation. Perhaps he can visit a market in Baghdad and see just how much it resembles an Indiana Farmer's Market.

Posted by Not as stupid as Will Allen | July 8, 2008 12:51 AM

yeah, cd6, I lack the enlightenment that you posess, in knowing that Iraqis are only fit to be your oil slaves for decades on end.

Posted by Will Allen | July 8, 2008 12:54 AM

Meathead, I've been to the Persian Gulf, and have seen the slave system that you favor. You and Helms really did have a lot in common.

Posted by Will Allen | July 8, 2008 1:10 AM

Will Allen has officially jointed the ranks of freak shows like SLC, Chris Ford, Mixner, Al, and Powell.

The sole purpose of his initial post was to support this dead fucktard Helms. That makes Allen a fucktard on the face of it.

I personally can't stand any of the Kennedy family (except maybe Maria Shriver, who used to be hot), but to drag up asshole Teddy in defense of Jesse Helms is about as brain dead as one can get.

Allen is on a par here with those old Penthouse comics that used to show Teddy popping out of a barrel of water in every splash page. Those were funny. Allen is not. Allen is just a psycho freak show like the rest of the right wing trolls here.

Posted by Richard Steven Hack | July 8, 2008 3:49 AM

Ted Kennedy's crime was second-degree manslaughter. That's bad enough and shows a shocking callousness and selfishness, but it isn't murder. Had he owned up to his crime and had the judge thrown the book at him, he would have served no more than about seven years in prison, if I recall correctly.

Then again, Will Allen supports Helms' "staunch anti-communism" which in practice meant support for genocidal tyrants in Guatemala, genocidal terrorists in Nicaragua, genocidal death squads in El Salvador, and a crippling economic embargo against Cuba. Helms' anti-communism and his racism were the same thing at root, a desire for the rich and powerful to maintain their position at the top of the heap, and screw everyone else. Someone like Will Allen who supports such a man is truly a moral idiot.

Henry Wallace was a true political hero of mid-20th century America, by the way. A man who had the courage and moral purity to sabotage his own Presidential campaign because he refused to speak to segregated audiences.

Posted by Hector | July 8, 2008 8:16 AM

A question was asked a while back as to whether the word "transvestite" appears anywhere in the US Code opther than the footnote Helms dropped into the Fair Housing Act in 1988. The answer is no.

(That's federal law. I can't justify using my employer's resources to search 50 separate state codes.)

Posted by roac | July 8, 2008 9:16 AM

Then again, Will Allen supports Helms' "staunch anti-communism" which in practice meant support for genocidal tyrants in Guatemala, genocidal terrorists in Nicaragua, genocidal death squads in El Salvador, and a crippling economic embargo against Cuba. Helms' anti-communism and his racism were the same thing at root, a desire for the rich and powerful to maintain their position at the top of the heap, and screw everyone else.

This, at heart, is Will Allen's ideology. Steal from the poor brown people, killing them if you aren't happy with the way they do business, and justify it all with mindless sophistry. Sure, sometimes you support dictators, sometimes you prop them up with idiotic embargoes, and sometimes you "oppose" them by installing new and different dictators. But in no case are you to treat them with dignity and respect. After all, as Will Allen you are better than those people. That's why support for policies that murder thousands is better than being responsible for a single woman's death. That woman wasn't a brown person far away. So saith Will Allen.

Posted by Not as stupid as Will Allen | July 8, 2008 9:55 AM

There's been an article about Laura Bush's teenage car homicide (or whatever it was, it seems to me that if you kill someone then semantically it's homicide) at Snopes.com . I -think- it indicates there that she ran a stop sign and wasn't prosecuted after the incident, which I guess, I'm not too sure, is because of who she was or where she was, i.e. someplace where automobiles are entitled to kill people. Incidentally, "boyfriend" seems doubtful in that particular account. If older folks will cast their minds back, the term is elastic. Apparently the guy who died was a young male whom she knew socially. I suppose that maybe boy + friend = boyfriend. But it isn't necessarily "Tell Laura I Love Her" material. (Isn't that spooky?)

Did anyone else's mind slip a gear speed-reading the article and think that George Michael was on the list of Jesse Helms's fans? I don't think that was reciprocated in recent years... anyway, my mistake.

"By using this service you agree not to post material that is obscene, harassing, defamatory, or otherwise objectionable." So I hope I got the details right.

Posted by Robert Carnegie | July 8, 2008 10:26 AM

Apparently, none of you have heard of freedom of speech. He had as much right to his opinion as any other American.

Posted by Connie | July 8, 2008 10:33 AM

You are illiterate as well, it appears, Hack. What is it about the words "grave shortcomings" and "disgusting bigot" which constitutes a defense of Helms? Are you a liar cr merely stupid?

Hector, I don't and didn't support Helms. You are lying, as is typical of you. I said Helms was staunch anticommunist. I said this because it was true. The truth often offends you, doesn' it?

Henry Wallace was a supporter of Stalinists, a group of people who supported more murders than anyone else in the 20th century. Your support of Wallace suggests you don't mind mass murder on a scale that dwarfs anything that happened in
Central and South America, Asia, or anywhere else, by all noncommunist dictators combined. To call you a moral idiot would be an insult to moral idiots.

Keep slaving and stealing, meathead. Somewhere, Jesse Helms is smiling in support of you.

Posted by Will Allen | July 8, 2008 10:47 AM

By the way, Hector, I never once compared the scale of Helms' wrongdoing with Kenendy's. Can you even try to read? I merely noted that it was perfectly reasonable to discuss Helms' grave shortcomings upon his death, and noted that it was also perfectly reasonable to mention that Kennedy had never expressed remorse for wrongfully killing a wholy innocent woman, when making comments about Kennedy's life and career, upon his cancer diagnosis.

Posted by Will Allen | July 8, 2008 10:55 AM

Freedom of speech isn't the same as having a right to an opinion. Each person has a right to an informed opinion. Random assholes attempting to distract from the legacy of hatred by pointing to a single bad act by someone else and inflating that bad act into murder do not constitute informed opinion.

Were he minimally informed the idiot Will Allen would know the difference between accidents and murders - he is not and so he conflates them - mostly because he is a slave to his ideology that says "Democrat Bad." As any rational person would recognize, a premeditated murder is still a much smaller crime than instigating the deaths of thousands (this, by the way, is why Manson who was charged with no direct homicide is in prison for life.).

That's right, Ted Bundy and Charles Manson, but still neither one of them worked as hard to get people killed as Jesse Helms and Will Allen. How many Iraqis will lose their opportunity to thank our friend Will Allen for his generous contribution to their culture today?

Posted by Not As Stupid As Will Allen | July 8, 2008 11:55 AM

Will Allen,

I didn't say you said that Kennedy murdered Ms. Kopechne. You just said he 'remorselessly killed her', which carries the connotation of wilful murder. Mr. Kennedy didn't kill her, he just stood by watching while she died in agony. That is a horrid and shocking act. I wouldn't socialize with Ted Kennedy and I didn't vote for him last time around. But again, it isn't murder. It would have got him a maximum of seven years in jail, if that.

Wallace wasn't a Stalinist, you fool. He was a Christian and a democratic socialist. He happened to admire some things about the Soviet Union, I doubt that a love for Stalinist atrocities were among them. One can have an admiration for the medieval Christian Europe without admiring the burnings of heretics and the pogroms against the Jews. Personally I think Wallace was a bit too sanguine towards the Soviet Union, but I doubt there was anything malicious in it. Wallace's work as an agricultural scientist and in Roosevelt's government helped feed many people around the world and he deserves admiration for that as well as for (unsuccessfully) trying to stop the Cold War in its tracks. But then I don't expect you to admire that since your lack of moral insight is painfully obvious.

Posted by Hector | July 8, 2008 12:06 PM

If the meathead could read, he'd graasp that 99% of his last post has exactly nothing to do with anything I have written. Actually, I think he might be able to read, but is sadly in the grip of a psychotic episode that apparently has lasted for months, if not years. The voices in his head cause him to fervently think that certain words and sentences have appeared on his screen, when in reality they have not. Either that, or the meathead is a pathological liar.

By the way, since when is noting the remorseless and wrongful killing of an innocent person an ideological statement? Not for the first time, it must be asked; what is wrong with meathead's brain?

Posted by Will Allen | July 8, 2008 12:15 PM

Two quibbles, Connie.

First, if Jessie Helms had been merely exercising his right to free speech - much like if you were exercising your right in similar fashion - then he (or you) would certainly have to be prepared for a bunch of the rest of us to exercise our rights and call him on his racist, bigoted claptrap.

Second, Jessie wasn't merely exercising his right to free speech. He was elected to a prestigious national office and was using his position to try and impose his racist claptrap agenda on the rest of us - or at least trying to prevent the rest of us from dismantling it.

Doesn't speak well of him, and it doesn't speak well of the people who voted him into office.

Posted by Rofe | July 8, 2008 12:15 PM

Also, meathead, I have never once employed the term "murder" in describing Kennedy's behavior. Not once. You are lying once again. Another question must be asked again; can you write one post that doesn't contain a lie? Just one?

Posted by Will Allen | July 8, 2008 12:20 PM

Hector joins the iliteracy parade, I see. What s damage has occured in your frontal lobes that causes you to think that the phrase....

"Wallace was a supporter of Stalinists"

......is synonymous with the phrase....

"Wallace was a Stalinist"?

Does grasping the plain meaning of simple words normally pose such a challenge? What is wrong with you?

I also never claimed that you had asserted that I had claimed that Kennedy committed murder. I wrote...

"I never once compared the scale of Helms' wrongdoing with Kenendy's"

...in response to you writing that Kennedy did commit murder, which I never disputed, and you also writing about Helms' misdeeds, which, since I never offered any defense or support for Helms, had nothing to do with what I had written.

Posted by Will Allen | July 8, 2008 12:35 PM

"did not commit murder", of course. Also, the fact that your understanding of the language, Hector, is such that getting drunk, driving a car with a passenger inside off a bridge, not contacting authorities in an attempt to effect a rescue, and then never giving an honest account of one's behavior, doesn't connote a remorseless wrongful killing of an innocent person is unfortunate, but I can't solve all of your problems.

Posted by Will Allen | July 8, 2008 12:43 PM

Here's what's funny about disgusting thugs like Will Allen: they have no self-awareness. Were one to point out the loathsomeness of the fire-bombing of Dresden there would be a malicious thug like Will Allen carping about Nazis making soap out of their victims. As if somehow one made the other acceptable. It's why these idiots cannot help but pretend that those who oppose Bush's assault on the innocent Iraqi people are apologists for Saddam Hussein.

Each and every one of Jesse Helms' victims can be laid at the feet of sociopaths like Will Allen. How does that not contradict my point? Because he is trying to distract from what a monster Helms was. Unlike Saddam Hussein, whose removal from power at the hands of Bush resulted in chaos and death, the removal of Helms from power would only have helped the United States, and indeed people around the world.

Idiot boy will now pretend I have said something good about Saddam Hussein. He will be wrong, again. What I said comes down to this simple fact - as bad as it was, Iraq could get worse. Will Allen rejoices in the fact that it did. It's what separates him from humankind.

Posted by Not as stupid as Will Allen | July 8, 2008 11:04 PM

Meathead, I never claimed you said something good about Saddam Hussein. I said you are rather like Jesse Helms, in that you fully believe that there are people who are only fit to be your slaves, in order to support your lifestyle. You and Jesse were ideological kin.

Posted by Will Allen | July 9, 2008 12:47 AM

What's also amusing is that it is pretty certain that the Jesse Helms - Saddam Hussein comparison is probably more important than our resident supporter of genocide will ever admit. After all, Reagan and Helms go back a long way and Reagan was a supporter of Hussein (that Rumsfeld photo wasn't just something faked up by evil Democrats to discredit upstanding supporters of tyranny like Will Allen, it was a news photo) - it stretches belief that Helms wasn't on-board with the support for this thug, until, like our good friend and local idiot, Will Allen, he decided that Hussein was no longer the right kind of murderous dictator.

Jesse Helms, for genocidal dictators before he was against them? Almost certainly. Racist asshole whose legacy is one of death and destruction around the world - without question.

Posted by Not as stupid as Will Allen | July 9, 2008 1:15 AM

Yes, meathead, Helms was a racist asshole like you.

Posted by Will Allen | July 9, 2008 1:48 AM

I love how Will "Kill them all and let me have their resources" Allen has a burning desire for the last word.

You're welcome to it - but it still won't change Jesse Helms from the racist monster whose support for right-wing dictators helped murder thousands into someone comparable to one whose personal life caused the tragic death of a single woman and whose public life centered around supporting those less fortunate than himself.

In the end, you will still be a supporter of murder and theft, and Jesse Helms will still have been the kind of human being we would be better off never having allowed to hold power in the US Senate.

Good night you boil on the ass of decency. Try to update your catalog of insults to include something more imaginative than ripoffs of 70s TV shows that were mocking the very kind of people you support by trying to distract from the legacy of hate that is Jesse Helms' career.

Posted by Not as stupid as Will Allen | July 9, 2008 2:44 AM

Goog grief, you are a imbecile, meathead. Look! I just "ripped off" Charles Schulz!

Here's a clue, you self-obsessed preener. Not everything refers to your memories of decades past. You're just a meathead (as evidenced by the fact that still cannot grasp that I haver never made a judgement between the relative faults of Helms and Kennedy), and since you choose to employ insipid insults in your moniker in this forum, I simply choose to use the description of what you plainly are when addressing you.

Sorry to distract you from your life's work, the support of slavery and theft. How decent of you.

Posted by Will Allen | July 9, 2008 10:42 AM

A national holiday is a very costly thing for the country, banks closing, work called off, etc. The only way to make Martin Luther King's birthday a national holiday was to take that honor away from George Washington (remember him, the father of our country?). Jesse helms was right to filibuster.

Posted by phil | July 9, 2008 2:34 PM