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Bacevich on the Big Questions

01 Jul 2008 09:17 am

Andre Bacevich has a brilliant op-ed in the Boston Globe. I'll quote two paragraphs:

Bush's harshest critics, left liberals as well as traditional conservatives, have repeatedly called attention to this record. That criticism has yet to garner mainstream political traction. Throughout the long primary season, even as various contenders in both parties argued endlessly about Iraq, they seemed oblivious to the more fundamental questions raised by the Bush years: whether global war makes sense as an antidote to terror, whether preventive war works, whether the costs of "global leadership" are sustainable, and whether events in Asia rather than the Middle East just might determine the course of the 21st century.

This is absolutely right. At the moment, we're constructing our political spectrum almost entirely along questions like "what do you think of the surge" which, though important don't really speak to the big theoretical questions in play. You might think that a 16 month timeline for withdrawal is too hasty, but also be fundamentally opposed to preventive war and I'd say that'd be better than having the reverse positions. But we're not really talking about this stuff. More Bacevich:

The burden of identifying and confronting the Bush legacy necessarily falls on Obama. Although for tactical reasons McCain will distance himself from the president's record, he largely subscribes to the principles informing Bush's post-9/11 policies. McCain's determination to stay the course in Iraq expresses his commitment not simply to the ongoing conflict there, but to the ideas that gave rise to that war in the first place. While McCain may differ with the president on certain particulars, his election will affirm the main thrust of Bush's approach to national security.

The challenge facing Obama is clear: he must go beyond merely pointing out the folly of the Iraq war; he must demonstrate that Iraq represents the truest manifestation of an approach to national security that is fundamentally flawed, thereby helping Americans discern the correct lessons of that misbegotten conflict.

Exactly. This is a major theme of Heads in the Sand and I thought all throughout the primary season that Obama was the Democrat most likely to be able to do what's necessary. Thus far he hasn't really, for reasons that are a little bit his fault and to a large extent just the fault of the broader politico-media complex for being frighteningly indifferent to the big-picture questions.

But there are the issues we need to be talking about. There are light-years of difference between the proposition that "circumstances might arise in which we need to deploy military forces to pursue a counterterrorism objective" and "9/11 means we should define our role in the world as a highly militarized quest for coercive world domination." But thus far both the unpopular Bush and the somewhat popular McCain have managed to elide the difference.

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Comments (27)

You're not going to see a major examination of these themes because Bacevich's core beliefs are antithetical to so many mainstream republican and democratic leaders, bloggers, and journalists. Anyone who writes a book about the "new american militarism" isn't going to get a serious hearing on security matters from people who are arguing not about whether to fight wars overseas but rather how the wars should be fought and where.

"Thus far he hasn't really, for reasons that are a little bit his fault and to a large extent just the fault of the broader politico-media complex for being frighteningly indifferent to the big-picture questions."

But lil Matty actively wanted the candidate of General Electric as the nominee of the Democratic Party.

He was willing to lie through his teeth to see the candidate of General Electric win the nomination.

And now lil Matty just blames the "broader politico-media complex" for him own scumbaggery. Kinda like how he blamed everyone else in sight for his own scumbaggery in endorsing the Iraq war.

I mean, seriously, immediately after spending six months lying through their teeth to get the most conservative Democratic nominee in 40 years, the assholes like lil Matty will now spend years professing to be surprised at the outcome of selecting the most conservative Democratic nominee in 40 years.

Petey, you know what you could have done? You could have brought up how refreshing it was to have Edwards frame his foreign policy stance as a repudiation of the "war on terror." That's what the old Petey would have done, the one who didn't sound like a ranting man in rags waving an End is Near sign. He would have tried to stay relevant to the current reality.

Instead, well. . . we get this Petey who has simply become an axe-grinder. Who are you convincing?

Get the fuck over Obama's win. Make your lemonade already.

Don't feed the Petey. Petey is in it to have Petey's ego fed. Petey at this point likely doesn't believe anything he actually says. When a child holds their breath to get what they want, sometimes the best thing to do is let them pass out because once that happens they will start breathing again. Petey is just being a child (with no credibility and a love for lying) that needs to pass out for a little while.

Yes, these are very important questions for U.S. and world stability; but more important is for you to agree that The Surge Is Working. That is what is important, or so I gather from the tee vee box.

RM, I know you're right. It's just that I read the column and immediately thought of Edwards. Then to come into the thread and see the same old GE BS from Petey v.2, I got a little nostalgic for overconfident Edwards-booster Petey. I know he's gone though.

I am really getting tired of people just being mean and spiteful. Could people actually address ideas and perhaps something could come out of this process instead of just a lot of words.

I am really getting tired of people just being mean and spiteful. Could people actually address ideas and perhaps something could come out of this process instead of just a lot of words.

Matt, seriously, what do you think MoveOn or most other anti-war organizations would say about an advocate who said that?

The organized new infrastructure of the left has had as much of a hand in structuring this debate as "withdrawal vs. indefinite occupation" as the Bush idiots. Any Dem candidate who took a Clintonian/traditional internationalist line and said "I opposed this war but we have a duty to protect the human rights of the Iraqi people" would get slammed by the folks who want Troops Home Now.

Politicians are people whose main interest is a quest for political power. The American political elite are the last people in the world who would reject an American quest for world domination or accept any limits on American political power.

This is a major theme of Heads in the Sand and I thought all throughout the primary season that Obama was the Democrat most likely to be able to do what's necessary. Thus far he hasn't really

What primary season were you watching, Matt? The one I watched had Obama saying repeatedly that not only did we have to end the Iraq war but we had to end the mindset behind the war.

[Petey] could have brought up how refreshing it was to have Edwards frame his foreign policy stance as a repudiation of the "war on terror."

I'm not quite as vociferously bitter as Petey, but I'm pretty bitter. Not against MY, though. After Edwards dropped out, I had to favor BO against HRC too; Petey's implication that HRC would've been so much more progressive than BO - especially when you think about foreign policy - is just strange. I've never understood it.

But I'm bitter too, because BO and HRC, along with a truly pinheaded Democratic party and our dreadful press, made the primary mainly about *identity politics* rather than ideology - ie actual politics. We wouldn't nominate the best (by far) candidate because he was a southern white man. Really really stupid. Not fundamentally different from choosing someone because you'd like to have a beer with them. Our Democratic version of stupidity is of course more precious. Hilzoy's wise dictum - 'all things being equal, I'd vote for the woman/black man' (paraphrase) - was, unfortunately, either ignored or not considered at all.

I'd love to just sneer and write it all off - 'goodbye to all that' - but I live here and love my country, so...I'm just bitter.

I don't want to just end the war, but I want to end the mindset that got us into war in the first place.

That was Obama in January. Can anyone recall anything he's said about that "mindset" since?

"But I'm bitter too, because BO and HRC, along with a truly pinheaded Democratic party and our dreadful press, made the primary mainly about *identity politics* rather than ideology - ie actual politics. We wouldn't nominate the best (by far) candidate because he was a southern white man."

Oh come on. Maybe Edwards just lost the primary and he turns out to not be that skilled a politician? I liked a lot of what Edwards said during the campaign and flirted with the idea of supporting him (but couldn't because of his stronger protectionist record than Obama and Clinton). His sudden shift from DLC-er to class warrior populist just seemed a bit too artificial for many, which made us doubt that he believed what he was saying.

Sometimes in the dead of night when sleep does not come I have this glimpse of a wonderful day in the near future. Impeachment panels. Special prosecuters. Gonzales and Rove doing the perp walk. I smile to myself and drift to quiet slumber.

Of course, never gonna happen. But this is the only way to have a national moment of reflection on unprovoked wars of aggression, torture, secret deals with big oil, the whole Bush 43 Presidency.

What primary season were you watching, Matt? The one I watched had Obama saying repeatedly that not only did we have to end the Iraq war but we had to end the mindset behind the war.

Yeah, Ackerman had a great article in TAP about this a couple months ago. I think the complaint would be that this hasn't been a prominent theme now that we are more or less in the general election. And more generally, that Obama is/was making this case to liberals (e.g. the kind of person who reads TAP), but not the country at large. Since we're still sort of transitioning to the general I'm not too concerned, although Obama is making some gestures toward the center in other areas. But once the debates come around I really hope he draws a strong contrast with McCain along these lines. One reason I supported him was that he suggested he was going to do this, while it appeared Clinton would take the narrower view that we should withdraw from Iraq but that there is nothing wrong with the process that got us there. Not only do I think Obama's position is correct and that it really needs a more prominent place in the national debate, I think Clinton's argument against McCain would be weaker, telling us that the war is a huge unwinnable clusterfuck but that we shouldn't let that stop us from doing it again. At least when McCain says it wasn't a mistake going into Iraq he backs it up by claiming that it will eventually be successful. But the best position is taking the popular view that the war has been a failure and making the logical extension that the process that got us there is fundamentally flawed. Obama shouldn't shy away from it just because the electorate he is facing now isn't as overwhelmingly anti-war as the primary electorate was.

whether events in Asia rather than the Middle East just might determine the course of the 21st century . . .

Understatement.

Oh come on. Maybe Edwards just lost the primary and he turns out to not be that skilled a politician?

Sure reality man, maybe the chance to vote for the first really viable woman or black candidate had NOTHING TO DO with both the press, the money people and primary voters' fixation on Obama and HRC to the exclusion of the road-tested candidate whose ideas the other two coopted wholesale. Yeah, I'm sure it's just that he was not a very skilled politician. For god's sake, Edwards couldn't BUY press coverage unless it was negative. I remember more than one semi-prominant blogger (I won't mention any names...cough, Farley...) actually saying that although they liked him on substance, they couldn't support Edwards because he was southern and male. Others just thought he sounded or looked 'funny'. Great deliberations, obviously.

Look, I'm not saying that it wasn't understandable, just that it was stupid. Democratic 'Identity Politics' is our version of 'I like a president who wears cowboy boots and clears brush'. You can rationalize with 'maybes' all you want, but that won't change the fact that we nominated a pretty conservative, defensive, super-cautious politician instead of an audacious progressive at a moment when the audacious progressive could've won.

I'm strongly supporting BO now that he's the nominee, but I have no illusions about him.

"For god's sake, Edwards couldn't BUY press coverage unless it was negative."

Or maybe Edwards is just really bad at playing the press. Obama's sunny rhetoric makes for good copy for reporters. After all, the "Man from Hope" and "Comeback Kid" talk helped elect Clinton the first time around. A few reporters noted that Edwards's gloom and doom just depressed them. Edwards seemed to be playing to the press we wish we had rather than the press we actually had. A good politician makes good press for themselves instead of just expecting it to happen. The fact that he had voted for the war in the first place also meant he couldn't become the anti-Clinton candidate on foreign policy. Who cares what some random blogger (who most liberals probably haven't heard of anyway) said about why he couldn't vote for Edwards? Edwards was more popular in the blogosphere than in the real world anyway. Pouting that the white guy couldn't catch a break because he is male and not a minority is just tacky and a bit creepy.

Pouting that the white guy couldn't catch a break because he is male and not a minority is just tacky and a bit creepy.

Identity politics-as-fundamental is dumb, RM, no matter which way it slices. Your formulation is a variant on S. Colbert's 'I've heard that I'm white, but, you know, I don't *see* race..'. There is nothing tacky or creepy about pointing out the pretty obvious fact that BO - a very smart, very charismatic pol, and a black man - and HRC - a woman, former first lady, and beneficiary of large institutional support - used up most of the oxygen in the room. I also don't think it's very controversial to observe that the historic nature of their candidacies vis a vis race and gender respectively figured greatly in their decisions to run. I think we'll win this election, and I'm very glad for it, but I will continue to believe that we missed a big opportunity to really change the game. I'm not pouting. I'm bitter.

The fact that he had voted for the war in the first place also meant he couldn't become the anti-Clinton candidate on foreign policy.

The reason Edwards is being discussed at all in the thread to MY's post on Bacevich's brilliant essay is because Edwards actually had a cogent meta critique of the 'war on terror' which both other candidates were scared of, including Obama.

Who cares what some random blogger (who most liberals probably haven't heard of anyway) said about why he couldn't vote for Edwards?

I wouldn't say Robert Farley is 'some random blogger', just because you don't know who he is. I mentioned him because he was honest enough to say what others were only thinking. Possibly including you.

_____

The tax code is a moral document and should reflect our values. I will try to hold back healthcare benefits for congress until they pass a bill giving them to everyone. I will periodically stand on the WH lawn and give a running total of what our rotten campaign finance system costs you, in dollars. The 'war on terror' is phoney and makes us more vulnerable, not safer. I *will* withdraw from Iraq within a year of taking office. Almost 40 million people living in poverty in the richest country ever is a moral stain.

Good stuff! Oh...he's a white man? nah. It's more important that I vote for the [cooler guy who's black] [woman].

Identity politics is probably an inevitable part of our politics, but when it's the larger part, it's dumb.

johnnybutter, you are basically just blaming Edwards's lack of political skill on the fact that he wasn't a minority or a woman. He never had an idea how to engage the press, which is partly why he was a rather ineffective VP candidate. He lost on his own accord. He was the candidate white collar knowledge workers support to make themselves feel working class. He didn't even get working class support in the 2004 primary. Part of being a skilled politician is knowing how to sell a basket of policies to the right people, but he failed. Just because your bitter he lost to a black guy who happens to be the most charismatic Democrat to come along in a while while also having been right on the Iraq War from the beginning is just weird. Nobody was scared of what Edwards said because he was never that big a contender. Edwards was never going to be a game changer because working class people saw him as a phony shitting on their dreams and saw his populist rhetoric as hateful.

"I wouldn't say Robert Farley is 'some random blogger', just because you don't know who he is. I mentioned him because he was honest enough to say what others were only thinking. Possibly including you."

Wow, accusing others of reverse racism. Great job looking like an asshole. You just sound like a total nut.

Ann: "I am really getting tired of people just being mean and spiteful. Could people actually address ideas and perhaps something could come out of this process instead of just a lot of words."

You must be new here. And new to blogs, for that matter.

What Matt doesn't address here is just how much the military-industrial complex and the "national security state" drives the entire US state apparatus - and that this is a natural consequence of being a state, especially one that is a superpower and has the power and wealth to implement such policies.

But Matt can't address that stuff because it would give him cognitive dissonance to his belief that government is fundamentally a good idea.

The US government is not going to stop doing this crap no matter what Democrat or Republican gets elected President. The only way the US is going to stop this is when it overreaches itself and ends up drained economically, militarily and geopolitically to the point where it's nearly a Third World country itself.

And the Iran war has the the potential to do that.

Reality Man channeling working class anger to bash Edwards is priceless.

"Reality Man channeling working class anger to bash Edwards is priceless.

Posted by funny that | July 1, 2008 10:23 PM"

How am I channeling working class anger? All I was doing was pointing out that Edwards has no real strong support among actual working class people and is more attractive to upper middle class white collar knowledge worker types. I liked a lot of his ideas, but I'm not under any illusions that Edwards speaks for the working class.

Reality Man

Who made you the working class expert? Your answers are always off base and delusional.

Never underestimate the capacity of a Democratic president to squander the achievements (and opportunities they present) of his Republican predecessors.

How did Clinton handle Reagan's and H.W.'s triumph in the collapse of the Soviet Union? He sat on his behind while Goldman Sachs sought profits from privatizing Russia's industries. Today we face an increasingly aggressive and authoritarian, insurgent nuclear Russia.

Carter -- himself a nuclear engineer -- turned attention to "synfuels" and squandered all the public investments in nuclear power infrastructure spearheaded by the Nixon Administration. He set the legal framework for the shrieking lunacies of fringe environmentalists to halt development of the nuclear power industry. Today we face a crisis in our oil dependency, and nuclear looks very good. (at least it would after sensible lawsuit reform and sweeping away "environmental impact" analysis that pretends every nuclear plant is a matter of first impression).

The enormous potential strategic advantage of the U.S. spearheading the first Arab democracy, having deposed one of the worst dictators of the 20th Century, is certainly within Obama's capacity to squander. Unfortunately, it is not within Bush's capacity to consolidate the gains -- not after Democrats used the blood of our troops as political football for the past four years. It will take a genuine bipartisan bridge builder with solid domestic and international gravitas. A man like John McCain.


Comments closed July 15, 2008.

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