Camby Trade

I keep forgetting to blog about Denver's salary dump trade sending Marcus Camby to the Clippers even though the Center for American Progress primarily hired me because John Podesta felt they had to beef up their NBA coverage to prepare for the looming era of having a hoops fan in the White House.

Camby is, though kind of old at this point, still really good. This is going to make Denver much worse and yet their payroll is still going to be high and they don't seem all that well-positioned to rebuild. For the Clippers, by contrast, I'd say this is about as good as resigning Elton Brand would have been -- they'll be in the playoff mix but not among the West's elite.

Comments

Recall that Camby's salary cost Denver twice what it paid Camby, who is a good player, but not a $16 mil. player. This is a win/win deal.

Posted by SomeCallMeTim | July 18, 2008 12:34 PM

I am sorry Matt, you are an extremely smart man, but you just lost all your NBA cred.

Was picking up Camby a good move? Absolutely....

About as good as resigning Brand?????

Have you gone completely mad?

Posted by Phillip Dukes | July 18, 2008 12:37 PM

This was perhaps the dumbest move the Nugs could have made. Camby before Kenyon Martin? Kenyon Martin who is overpaid and always hurt?

Posted by Herb | July 18, 2008 12:39 PM

It's a good pickup for the Clippers, just because they have to be pretty desperate for some inside talent. They're the kind of team that can clear cap space and have nothing to spend it on, so it's better than what they would have had.

Look for Denver to compete w/Minnesota and Memphis for worst D in the league in 2008-9.

Posted by Crusty Dem | July 18, 2008 12:40 PM

In the playoff mix... with what, Baron Davis, Camby, Kaman (both centers, aren't they?), and Al Thornton? Not unless Thornton starts putting up 20 ppg.

Posted by Asher | July 18, 2008 12:47 PM

It's a good pickup for the Clippers, just because they have to be pretty desperate for some inside talent. They're the kind of team that can clear cap space and have nothing to spend it on, so it's better than what they would have had.

Look for Denver to compete w/Minnesota and Memphis for worst D in the league in 2008-9.

Posted by Crusty Dem | July 18, 2008 12:48 PM

Asher: You're forgetting about Eric Gordon and his forthcoming "impressive" 15/2/2 (on 17 FGA) rookie season.

Posted by Nate | July 18, 2008 1:03 PM

What SCMT said - it's all about the luxury tax.

As far as the Clips go, Davis/Camby > Brand/Maggette. So they should improve. However, even though Brand and Maggette were both injury prone, I'd be even more worried about injuries with Camby and Davis.

Posted by Al | July 18, 2008 1:05 PM

Clearly a luxury tax move; ostensibly a 2 year / $16 million signing for the Clippers, which is great value for a premier defensive center. On the other hand, its a 2 year / $32 million drop for Denver. No one was truly interested in Kenyon Martin (why would they be) or Nene Hilarious, and its clear that Denver shopped Anthony and couldn't find a good return.

A good move for the Clippers; they'll be considered the genuine article if they can snag Vince Carter from the Nets. Pity on the Knicks for demanding more than Mobley and Thomas for Zach freakin' Randolph. Donny Walsh is a maroon.

Posted by Joel | July 18, 2008 1:10 PM

You misunderstand what Matt's saying Phillip. Obviously, Camby isn't a better player than Brand, but acquiring Camby will have roughly the same effect for the Clips as resigning Brand. In other words, they're still a playoff bound team who'll win some games, but with no chance of breaking through in a loaded Western conference. Not quite a zero sum acquisition, but it works for them.

Meanwhile, the Nuggests are officially rebuilding, and I don't see how Allen Iverson sticks with them through the year.

Posted by dannity | July 18, 2008 1:17 PM

This was perhaps the dumbest move the Nugs could have made. Camby before Kenyon Martin? Kenyon Martin who is overpaid and always hurt?

You're forgetting that you can't trade a player unless another team will take him--and the factors you cite make Martin arguably the most untradeable player in the NBA. Obviously the Nugs would unload K-Mart if they could, but they can't. There's a market for Camby, so they traded him.

Posted by Jake H. | July 18, 2008 1:21 PM

This is, of course, the result of K-Mart's and Nene's afwul contracts. You just can't have so many unproductive high-priced guys on your roster unless you are like the Knicks and don't care about the luxury tax. The only way that the Nuggets will be any good is if they can get good production outo fo K-Mart and Nene - which I think is highly doubtful. (K-Mart was only a bordeline all-star before his knee surgeries; he's just a shell of the defensive player he was with Jersey. I suppose Nene has a chance to return to his former self, if he applies himself and slims down, but how likely is that?)

Posted by Al | July 18, 2008 1:21 PM

Camby's overrated. Sure, he looks like he should be good statistically--those high block totals, those monster rebounding numbers--but they're inflated as a result of his selfish defensive play. Watch him not hedge on a pick-and-roll sometime to see what I mean.

Posted by dtah | July 18, 2008 1:25 PM

How can anyone say this is a playoff-bound team? All playoff teams this year should make the playoffs again, except for the Nuggets. That leaves one spot for the Clippers. Now, isn't the most obvious contender for that spot Portland? They were a .500 team last year and they're going to be a lot better this year. They add Oden and should see big strides from Roy and Aldridge. That's at least a .550 team. Why would the Clippers be that good? The whole offense is going to be Baron Davis, and the more you stretch him the more ridiculously inefficient he gets.

Posted by Asher | July 18, 2008 1:33 PM

"All playoff teams this year should make the playoffs again, except for the Nuggets."

I wouldn't put money on that.

Posted by dannity | July 18, 2008 1:59 PM

Here's how I see the West next year-

1)LAL (Interesting to see if they get Artest)
2)New Orleans
3)Utah
4)San Antonio
5)Houston
6) Phoenix
7)Dallas (if they get Artest, then they're higher)
8) Portland

GS could be in the mix, but Baron Davis>Corey Maggette, so I doubt it. The Clippers will contend for the 8th spot, but most likely fade. Denver's D will suck even worse than last year, so they'll be lucky to make .500.

Posted by Waingro | July 18, 2008 2:14 PM

I'm not a huge fan of weighing the mental character qualities--toughness, etc.--of teams, but Artest would leave a team as soft as Dallas a wasteland. It took me forever to acknowledge this, but Artest is a headcase that can take down a team.

Posted by SomeCallMeTim | July 18, 2008 2:24 PM

So Waingro, you see the exact same order as this year, except swapping Utah and San Antonio, and sticking Portland in at 8th? Way to go out on a limb.

If Oden is healthy, I think Portland can crack the top 5. Phoenix and Dallas could easily fall out of the playoffs under new coaching regimes. San Antonio is due to drop off significantly, as well.

The Clips are most definitely in the mix for the bottom 3 spots if everyone is healthy... they should be better than both Golden State and Denver now, unless K-Mart and Nene somehow play full seasons.

Posted by right | July 18, 2008 2:29 PM

"Phoenix and Dallas could easily fall out of the playoffs under new coaching regimes."

I just don't see Dirk, Amare and Nash in the lottery.

Posted by Asher | July 18, 2008 2:33 PM

"... Artest would leave a team as soft as Dallas a wasteland. It took me forever to acknowledge this, but Artest is a headcase that can take down a team."

Very possible, and I think that's why the Lakers would be a better fit as Kobe and Phil Jackson would probably be able to keep his craziness in check.

I think Jason Kidd would be able to garner Artest's respect, but if they go on a losing streak or things otherwise get rough, who the hell knows. Rick Carlisle has expressed desire in coaching Artest again, so he must think he'd be worth the risk. I still think the Lakers are the most likely destination, especially with Odom's expiring contract.

Posted by Waingro | July 18, 2008 2:34 PM

Very possible, and I think that's why the Lakers would be a better fit as Kobe and Phil Jackson would probably be able to keep his craziness in check.

Ten years ago, Jackson would have handled Artest perfectly. Now? I'm not so sure. Phil is showing some tread on his tires and I'm not sure he has the energy to deal with a menace like Artest on a daily basis.

Posted by owenz | July 18, 2008 2:50 PM

Far as I can tell, San Antonio was one Ginobili ankle away from their fifth title in ten years, so I don't know how you call them due for a drop-off. The calendar is about to have an odd-numbered year in it.

New Orleans is the over-rated team in the couple of posts above. They had everything go perfectly for them last year, and they were two games away from being the number six seed. If everyone is completely healthy again, and if everyone continues to develop, then they might be as good as that listing. But they aren't even a lock for the play-offs.

I have no read on the Mavericks whatsoever. It could be that AJ - who fit perfectly after the undisciplined years of Nelly - was stifling their creativity and holding them back, and they show that they still have the same kind of talent we thought they had during the 2004-2006 era. Or they could completely fall apart and win 30 games. The only thing that would surprise me is if they win 45-48 games.

My gut instinct at this point:

Division champs - Utah, Lakers, San Antonio.

Probably also in - Houston, New Orleans

Pick three from - Portland, Phoenix, Dallas, Clippers, and Nuggets.

Probably out - SAC, GS, OKC, MINN, MEM

Posted by Curtis | July 18, 2008 2:51 PM

So Waingro, you see the exact same order as this year, except swapping Utah and San Antonio, and sticking Portland in at 8th? Way to go out on a limb.

Eh. You could probably switch around the top three in any order but yeah, I don't see the West changing all that much. The Hornets, Jazz, and Lakers are the elite, with the San Antonio Cockroaches always in the mix as long as their big 3 are healthy.

I'd rank Houston higher, especially if you could count on T-Mac and Yao being healthy. But you can't.

I think the Suns and Mavs are done. They'll still be pretty good and nobody would look forward to playing them in the first or second round, but I just can't see them winning the West.

Posted by Waingro | July 18, 2008 2:55 PM

I kind of agree that the Mavs and Suns are done. I think the Kidd and Shaq signings were just disastrous. I expect both to make the playoffs, but only just to make the playoffs. And, because of Kidd, I expect the Suns to be better than the Mavs.

Posted by SomeCallMeTim | July 18, 2008 3:23 PM

Utah, Phoenix, Houston and Dallas are franchises with enough volatile performers and injury concerns that I could certainly envision any of those teams missing the playoffs. Hell, even the Lakers could drop a few spots. Calling the WC playoffs is no easy task.

Posted by Joel | July 18, 2008 3:59 PM

The Suns are a serious risk to miss the playoffs. Shaq's increasing age will offset his greater experience with his teammates from last year. And they absolutely depend on Nash playing at an all-star level. If he looks old next season, how does that team make the playoffs?

Posted by mpowell | July 18, 2008 4:37 PM

Camby and Kaman? For 25+ minutes a night? Is definitely going to work?

Maybe. Should be good on the defensive end and control the boards but what about the other end of the floor? I see the potential for some very serious spacing issues.

How a guy fits is sometimes just as important as how good he is.

Posted by someguy | July 18, 2008 4:37 PM

With Brand, the Clippers would have had top 5 players at 3 positions (Brand, Baron, Kaman) ... top 5 in the west at least. With some minimal luck, they would have challenged for the Pacific division.

With Camby ... they will challenge for the bottom tier of Western conference playoff spots.

Thorton is going to be a scoring beast. If you had a chance to watch him last year, you could see that. Keep his head on straight, and get some Dunleavy coaching defense ... could be a very nice player.

By the way, saying I hate the Clippers would be an exaggeration (how do you hate such a pathetically cursed and incompetent team?)

Posted by ValisJason | July 18, 2008 4:59 PM

I don't see why Camby and Kaman can't play together. Camby played just fine with Patrick Ewing in '99 and '00.

Posted by Al | July 18, 2008 4:59 PM

Al,

Maybe.

But Ewing could face up and had a very good jump shot. He could really shot an 18 to 20 foot jump shot. One criticism was that he took to many of those shots.

That isn't Kaman's game.

Posted by someguy | July 18, 2008 5:17 PM