« Absolute Privilege | Main | Learning The Rules » Celebrity Skin31 Jul 2008 06:21 pm I see I'm not the only one who thought John McCain's "Celebrity" ad would be a good opportunity for a Hole reference, as Michael Crowley goes there too opining: P.S. Terrible video but this album actually had its moments. I agree that Hole gets a bad rap, but really Live Through This has the vast majority of the listenable material. Did you know that Melissa auf der Mar has a blog? Comments (44)
John McCain loves to be the girl with the most cake. 
And yes, I directly ripped this thesis off Chuck Klosterman.
McCain loves Obama so much it just turns to hate
I thought bands only made it when at least one of the band members was dating Winona Ryder. If they haven't dated Winona, they're nobody. Even Courtney Love is friends with Winona. As Getty is reporting (though we're not sure just how credible their skills are, considering they spelled Sennett's band "Rilo Kelley") that Winona "reveled" her engagement at the Valentino fashion show in Paris over the weekend. And Courtney Love is quoted as slurring, "You're no one in music until you have feuded with me or until you sleep with Winona." They actually call it the "Ryder Curse", as immediately after the band member dates her the band breaks up or album sales collapse.
"Celebrity Skin" was underrated as a rock/pop album, but got about what it deserved if you expected an alternative/grunge album. I loved it when it came out. Glittery, ringing ear candy.
Hole's albums sucked for years Hole only made three albums -- PotI may have been pre-Cobain, Live Through This came out right around the time of his death, and Celebrity Skin four years later.
I came late to Hole but looooove Celebrity Skin. It's one of the last actual rock 'n' roll albums.
Leave Barack ALONE!! He's Human. He's making America a cool place. All you people care about is votes! http://londonamerican01.blogspot.com/2008/07/leave-barack-alone.html
Leave Barack ALONE!! He's Human. He's making America a cool place. All you people care about is votes! http://londonamerican01.blogspot.com/2008/07/leave-barack-alone.html
For what it's worth I saw auf der Mar performing with tSP several years ago. Wonderful performer, was totally impressed by her energy.
I thought I would be the only voice of reason in this thread defending Celebrity Skin, but it seems there is more support for it than I had guessed. Really a great album and it holds up very well.
Every time I read about Courtney Love carrying on like, well, Courtney Love, I remind myself that "Live Through This" shook me up. But what's the difference? It's not just that McCain's too old to care about the difference between pop scandals. He also measures everything through the only value he and his wife understand, money. When Love starts endorsing mass-market beer, he'll include her in his ads.
Matt - the root of McCain's elitism originates from his slaveholding ancestors. His direct ancestors in Mississippi owne African slaves. so it is not so odd that he always finds himself having to apologize to blacks a couple of years after he offended them
Aaron,
"Awful" is the only song on Celebrity Skin that's any good. I suppose my impression of Hole is really colored by having my first exposure to the band be "Teenage Whore", which to this day reminds me more of the rush of discovery that came with tuning in to early '90s college radio more than any other song.
She made "Pretty on the Inside," when she was still married to Kurt Cobain. That's just wrong on the timeline. Pretty on inside was released right before they started dating. Cobain was the star-fucker at the time to. I had a copy of Bleach when Pretty on the Inside was making the rounds and didn't know it was Nirvana. I thought the bands name was Bleach because I got it as a cassette somehad wrote Bleach on. I remember a review in Thrasher on that album that said it was just like all the same old shit that had been coming out of Seattle for years (which sounds funny as hell now).
you know, people really, really reserve their misogyny for Courtney Love. They really do. Stacy, you fucking nitwit, Hole only released three albums. The fact that the released collections of B-sides and rarities means nothing. So did Nirvana, and you know what? A lot of their B-sides and rarities sucked, too. That's why they're B-sides and rarities. Pretty on the Inside is awesome, and was pre-Kurt. Her stuff with Babes in Toyland was awesome too. You have no evidence that Cobain wrote any of her songs-- and in fact, you have just as much evidence that she wrote Cobain's songs. "Pennyroyal Tea" has more Courtney in it, if anything. It drives me crazy, because the only reason anyone thinks that is because Courtney Love is a woman.
thanks, mr cobain, for writing Hole's only entirely decent album, Live Through This.
props to Freddie; "Live Through This" is better than any Nirvana albumn (though I prefer Nirvana's body of work to Hole's); it's a fucking amazing record, people....
Her stuff with Babes in Toyland was awesome too What stuff is that?
Mostly when they were Pagan Babies, but she was around when they were BIT too.
you know, people really, really reserve their misogyny for Courtney Love. They really do. And in fact, it's been scientifically proven that it's physically impossible to dislike Courtney Love for any reason other than simple misogyny.
Wikipedia says you are right, she played bass apparently, I didn't know that. I just remembered that her and Kat Bjelland had some sort of problem with each other. Are there any tracks she did vocals on with Babes in Toyland?
I recently listened to Live Through This after not hearing any songs for maybe 10 years. There are a couple good songs on the album, but the rest really sucks. The album does not hold up at all. And that was their best album.
"That's just wrong on the timeline. Pretty on inside was released right before they started dating. Cobain was the star-fucker at the time" Yup. And given that Pretty on the Inside is the only truly outstanding album Courtney ever made, it's fair to cite Cobain as Hole's Yoko Ono.
Pretty on the Inside is total crap - lots of tuneless shrieking from the talentless Ms. Love.
Freddie,
My apologies, my girlfriend just corrected me and told me that Courtney Love played bass in the band before they hit it big. I told my girlfriend to shut the fuck up and then I slapped her. I told her chicks can't make good music, and they always have their boyfriends write it for them.
Lots of chicks can make good music. Courtney Love just isn't one of them. So let's get rid of that canard.
Yeah, you're right. I'm actually watching Robin Thicke on Leno right now. She's really good. And REALLY hot!!
Yeah, you're right. I'm actually watching Robin Thicke on Leno right now. She's really good. And REALLY hot!!
Courtney Love need Linda Perry (of 4 Non Blondes) write songs for her! How talented could she be?
"Pretty on the Inside is total crap - lots of tuneless shrieking" You say that like it's a bad thing.
There are musicians and music people. I've noticed musicians hate the hell out of a bunch of bands I love. Hole would be a good example. They try and explain to me why certain bands are cheating. It involves scales and chords and Rules About Music that any right-thinking person should immediately recognize as horrific violations of the ears. I'll cop to prefering lyrics over music, but I've got a sense of rhythm, I dance better than your median white guy. I can't ever figure out if I'm just a Hessian for my tastes or if the musicians are hewing to a code of conduct that only makes sense to them.
Matthew Y.: I think McCain's ad comparing Obama to Britney and Paris is trying to suggest that being popular does not necessarily make one qualified to be president. You've called out McCain numerous times for whining, but now it seems your favorite candidate is the one who is whining that McCain doesn't want a serious debate and is trying to scare people because Obama's face doesn't look like the faces on the $1 and $5 bills. Jake Tapper, who I think has been pretty fair-minded during this campaign, disagrees that McCain is using those scare tactics. In fact, my understanding is that McCain has proposed numerous town hall debates for a serious discussion of the issues and that Obama has ignored those requests. What are your insights?
Well, Gas, I guess you can't blame Obama for using the incredible advantage of being black and running for president. That's been a surefire winner so far.
Right, Ed Marshall, I certainly can appreciate that Obama is blazing a new trail. However, I fail to see where his accusations of McCain trying to scare voters about his race ring true. It seems that it is Obama, himself, who is bringing that up. If interested, here's a link to the Jake Tapper article I was referring to: http://blogs.abcnews.com/#a0053529164 Thanks.
and good luck to your old fart, Gass. Have a good next four years.
Even Courtney Love is friends with Winona.
I'm sick of you un-American haters suggesting that just because Courtney Love has a bad temper and may be batshit crazy, that makes her unqualified to be President. Courtney Love is an American hero, damnit! Courtney Love was tortured by the Viet Cong! Courtney Love is renowned for straight talk, and if you in softies in Washington can't take it that's just too goddamn bad!
Hole records are fantastic songs with terrible production. Great lyrics, solid melodies, expressive singing, but then the whole thing ends up sounding like Heart. I think a lot of people, like Spackerman, are discovering how good the songs on Celebrity Skin are through Rock Band, where your own drunken warblings conceal the excess slickness of the (great) song's production.
Here's a question -- how old are the folks who love Celebrity Skin? Because I, like Matt, think it's not bad but absolutely pales in comparison with Live Through This, one of the best albums of the grunge era. (Although at a '94 release, I guess it was pretty late for that; a lot of what we heard on alternative radio had moved into more melodic stuff by then.) Anyway, when I first heard Skin I was expecting/hoping it to be, while not the same as LTT, at least of the same genus, and it isn't at all. While maybe folks younger than I (I'm 34) came to Skin fresh, without the years of associating Hole with a certain sound. (And specifically, a sound of their youth, from a time when radio was a lot, lot better than it had/has been in the 15 years before or since.)
Cliffy: The whole grunge category is bizarre in retrospect. All of these bands had pretty different sounds, and they often had significant changes in style between albums when there was money behind the production. Give Gish, Ten, and the previously mentioned some time on shuffle. What do they have to with each other beyond geography?
Comments closed August 14, 2008. |
Search
Subscribe to this blog by Email Books by Matthew Yglesias
Recent Comments
Recent Posts
Weekly Archives
Categories
|
Copyright © 2008 by The Atlantic Monthly Group. All rights reserved.
| 
Heads in the Sand
Everyone knows that Hole only made good albums when Courtney Love was fucking great songwriters. She made "Pretty on the Inside," when she was still married to Kurt Cobain. Then, Hole's albums sucked for years until she got together with Billy Corgan. Then, magically, they made "Celebrity Skin," which is also a very good album. Is this a coincedence? No, she never wrote her own songs. All of Hole's really good songs were written for them. First by Cobain, then by Corgan.
Posted by Stacy | July 31, 2008 6:37 PM