In a surprise move, looks like Baron Davis is going to sign with the LA Clippers. My understanding is that this means Elton Brand would have to take a small paycut for the Clippers to resign him, but if they can work out a deal that's a pretty damn solid inside-outside duo.
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Davis to LA
01 Jul 2008 10:46 pm
Comments (41)
I feel really, really bad for the Warriors fans right now. They're going to have a huge chunk of cap room, but I can't imagine the team being the same.
I wonder if Monta (the most underpaid player in the league) will run the point, if they'll pick up a vet free agent or try to make a trade with a team stocked with guards (like Portland or Memphis)?
I feel really, really bad as a Warriors fan right now.
I guess we're living in Monta Ellis' world now.
If the Clippers sign both Baron Davis and resign Elton Brand, they will contend for the title.
"I feel really, really bad as a Warriors fan right now. I guess we're living in Monta Ellis' world now."
You're living in Lottery World now...
Nellie lowballs and loses another 30yo top notch PG. It's Steve Nash leaving Dallas all over again.
I feel bad for Stephen Jackson.
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If the Clips can get healthy, they should be interesting. Not title-worthy, but 50 win interesting.
The real question is whether or not they can sign Zohan to team up with Baron.
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Everyone is currently expecting El Gilberto to re-sign with the 'zards, and that does seem the likely scenario, but the Baron signing means he's got a live option to head to Oaktown for big dollars, if he so desires.
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I wonder who Philly is going to throw their money at. If they don't pursue Josh Smith, some second tier free agent is going to unexpectedly hit the jackpot.
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The next domino to fall is Maggette. Most likely he heads to a lousy team. He certainly seems like the prototypical scorer on a bad team kind of guy.
But if Maggette ends up in Utah somehow, that could really propel the Jazz into the real elite. A wing scorer is all they are really lacking.
As Petey noted, the big news here (other than for Clips fans and GS fans) is that this gives Gilbert an option. Matthew has been constantly making the point that the Wiz should not give Gil a max contract because no other team would offer him a big contract. Well, Matthew's point is now non-operative. GS can and will offer Gil a max contract, and the Wiz will have to match it. To be sure the Wiz have the advantage because they can offer anextra year and slightly more $, but the Wiz now HAVE to offer a big contract to keep Gil.
"Matthew has been constantly making the point that the Wiz should not give Gil a max contract because no other team would offer him a big contract."
The Warriors' Boom Dizzle fiasco highlights the problem in trying to lowball a contract to your best player. You run the risk of the player telling you to go fuck yourself.
Not only did Baron walk away without the Warriors getting anything in return, but by keeping it a surprise until the final moment, the Warriors weren't able to use their $10m trade exception that expired on Monday.
Now, none of this is necessarily a reason for Washington to have offered Gil the $127m contract they've apparently offered him, but it does highlight the problem of lowballing. At the end of the day, if Pollin hadn't thrown the $127m out there, maybe Gil would've walked to Oakland sheerly out of spite.
(Of course, the Nets' unwillingness to lowball VC last summer is why their franchise fell apart. If the Nets had offered VC $20m less, Vince still would've made the most dough re-signing, J-Kidd never would've gotten upset, and the Nets could've afforded some role players to boot. So their are dangers on both sides of the road - both underpaying and overpaying.)
the Warriors weren't able to use their $10m trade exception that expired on Monday.
I don't think the Warriors wanted to use it. They're going young.
But my gawd, the West seems to be getting better and better. Davis/Brand/Kaman is a pretty good core. And the money is/will be split optimally among positions. SG and SF seem to be the easiest spots to fill.
The next domino to fall is Maggette. Most likely he heads to a lousy team. He certainly seems like the prototypical scorer on a bad team kind of guy.
Sure seemed that way, but now Maggette has been offered a contract by the Celtics and he has indicated that he'd take a pay cut to play for them.
If the Clippers sign both Baron Davis and resign Elton Brand, they will contend for the title.
Didn't Elton Brand's Achilles tendon snap? It's very hard to ever get back to where you were in terms of explosiveness after you've ruptured that tendon and your calf has atrophied over the course of a long recovery.
the Nets had offered VC $20m less, Vince still would've made the most dough re-signing
That's possible. It is also possible that Orlando would have paid Vince instead of Rashard.
I'm happy because this is going to make ClipperBlog relevant again, and Arnovitz is always a pleasure to read.
It's very hard to ever get back to where you were in terms of explosiveness after you've ruptured that tendon and your calf has atrophied over the course of a long recovery.
Brand isn't that athletic. That's purported to be the reason that Krause traded him for a draft pick. Krause thought Brand was a very good player who had physical limits that would prevent him from becoming great.
"Maggette has been offered a contract by the Celtics and he has indicated that he'd take a pay cut to play for them."
Unless Philly gets into the act, everyone is going to be offering Maggette the exact same contract - MLE maxed out.
Maggette gets to choose between the Spurs, Jazz, Magic, Celtics, and probably a couple of other options, with money not being an issue.
We all forget about Maggette because he's been playing in oblivion, but the cat can ball. Very efficient scorer at volume, albeit with some turnover issues consistent with being a slasher.
"Maggette gets to choose between the Spurs, Jazz, Magic, Celtics, and probably a couple of other options, with money not being an issue."
Money is an issue in that there's no way Maggette is going to lock himself into a 5 year MLE deal when he's young enough to get one more huge contract in his career. So, he's going to go to a team that can give him the spotlight for his next deal or will have the ability to resign him for big money. I'd say that puts the Spurs and the Celts in the lead.
Mike
if memory serves, baron is from santa monica, which makes it all the more amazing he signed with the clips, since as far as i've ever seen, no one in LA likes the clips.
Howard,
Although I think you are trying to be funny, he's an LA boy and I'm sure that played a huge part in deciding to leave the Warriors. We act like he was offended by their low-ball offer, but I'm sure its muchh more than that.
"If the Clippers sign both Baron Davis and resign Elton Brand, they will contend for the title."
Um, no. Although Thornton had a good rookie year, and they have Eric Gordan coming in, they could possibly be a 6 or 7 seed in the West.
"Eric Gordon"
The way BD handled this situation should remind everyone of his character and priorities. Everything was sunny in GSW for the last couple years, and it made people forget that Baron developed a reputation as a cancer and unbearable a-hole.
Now he assures them he'll stay all the way through the draft, berates reporters that suggest otherwise, tells the fans its all about the Bay, then instantly bolts. He was well within his rights, but it seems to be the old Parcells chump move........design your departure for maximum negative impact, make sure your former team does as poorly as possible in your wake to make you look better.
Stacy, i am trying to be funny, but i wouldn't be surprised if baron being from LA did make a difference.
Dan, if there's one thing not a single player in the NBA owes in the slightest to ownership, it's loyalty.
As far as the deal, its usually the type of deal the Warriors are handing people......too long by a couple of years. BD will be great for LAC for a year or two - if he can stay on the court. But I have a very hard time believing he'll be a productive player in 4 years. Last year was a dramatic outlier in his career performance, and I'm pretty sure that was because all energies were being directed toward this contract. Now put him in LALA land and see what happens.
Dan, if there's one thing not a single player in the NBA owes in the slightest to ownership, it's loyalty.
Totally understood, the W's were going to drop him next year, no loyalties here.
But to go out of your way to obscure intentions and scuttle contingency planning? All so he could get his blockbuster move and precious media coverage......welcome to BD's world.
"Um, no. Although Thornton had a good rookie year, and they have Eric Gordan coming in, they could possibly be a 6 or 7 seed in the West."
If Kobe, Gasol, Odom can get a team to the Finals, I think Davis, Brand, Kamen, Thornton and Mobley have got a shot at better than the 6th or 7th seed, even if they only play defense 25% better than Denver.
Mike
"Um, no. Although Thornton had a good rookie year, and they have Eric Gordan coming in, they could possibly be a 6 or 7 seed in the West."
If Kobe, Gasol, Odom can get a team to the Finals, I think Davis, Brand, Kamen, Thornton and Mobley have got a shot at better than the 6th or 7th seed, even if they only play defense 25% better than Denver.
Mike
Nellie lowballs and loses another 30yo top notch PG. It's Steve Nash leaving Dallas all over again.
Mark Cuban was the one who didn't want to pay Nash. And Dallas got better when he left so I'm not sure that is a great analogy.
Dan, you're trying to have it both ways: if davis doesn't owe warriors management anything, that includes not owing them a chance for contingency planning. there's not an owner in the nba who gives a god-damn that if he or she trades a player, all that player's "contingency planning" about home ownership, schools for family, etc. are completely disrupted.
i have no idea what davis' character is like (and i don't much care), but as a formal matter, the warriors are now the opposition for him, and he didn't have an obligation on his way out the door to make their lives easier.
He doesn't owe them anything, correct. He was employed for 3 1/2 years, and was well-compensated for his efforts. I wouldn't say its a matter of anyone owing anything, its more a matter of being an honest, upstanding individual rather than a spiteful, self-absorbed dick trying to harm the franchise. Does he at least owe the fans anymore than this?
dan, my honest answer to your question is no, he doesn't: he "owed" the fans his best efforts on the court when he was employed by the warriors, period, full stop.
i try not to get into speculation about a player's character, because who among us actually knows the player well enough to have an insight? for all i know, davis doesn't even know what the salary cap rules are (i sure as hell don't; as i've noted in this space before, i hate the cap and refuse to use up some of my limited remaining seconds in this vale of tears to learn much about it).
but no: once upon a time there was a connection among fan, player, and ownership. for reasons good and bad, that doesn't exist anymore, and davis has no obligation to anyone but himself.
That's possible. It is also possible that Orlando would have paid Vince instead of Rashard.
I'd say "likely" that Vince would have gone to Orlando.
Money is an issue in that there's no way Maggette is going to lock himself into a 5 year MLE deal when he's young enough to get one more huge contract in his career. So, he's going to go to a team that can give him the spotlight for his next deal or will have the ability to resign him for big money. I'd say that puts the Spurs and the Celts in the lead.
Agree mostly. Unless Philly or GS gets involved, he'll likely sign a one-year MLE, maybe with a second year player option and position himself for a big one in a couple years. Spurs, Celtics, and Magic seem most likely options.
Great, now I have to be a Clippers fan, too.
I'm trying not to hold it against Baron, but the way he left is a little messed up. Why the subterfuge?
If the Warriors end up getting Gilbert, it will be an OK consolation prize, but doesn't Gilbert want at least as much money as Baron? Since Baron is better than Gilbert, I can't see the Warriors paying the big bucks for the worse of the two players.
Petey, you really need to watch Maggette play a little to apprecaite how bad he is. He just looks lost out there. Then he gets the ball, puts his head down and takes it to the hole. He can't shoot, he has a bad handle, he can't pass, and he can't defend. The Clips would be better off letting him go and going straight to the Thornton era.
Howard, I think if you knew more about Davis you'd have a different opinion, that's all I'll say. Its not what he did, its how he did it, and its pure BD. There's a reason he's one of the most hated players leaguewide, and plenty of GMs have said they'd never touch the guy.
If the Warriors end up getting Gilbert, it will be an OK consolation prize...
I am surprised to see all this love for 'DL' Davis. The guy is turning 30 during next season, has played one complete season in the last 6 years, and made it to the playoffs once in the past 4 years. Giving him a 5 year contract means that some team is going to be paying for quite a bit of his decline and time off the court.
I like watching the guy, but if I were a GM, I'd probably let him go for that money too.
This might make sense for a team that thinks an upgrade will bring them the title in the next year or two, but for a team that falls short, this doesn't sound like a fantastic deal to me.
Arenas has his own injury issue, but he is at least younger and missed something like a dozen games in the three years before he got hurt.
"Petey, you really need to watch Maggette play a little to apprecaite how bad he is. He just looks lost out there. Then he gets the ball, puts his head down and takes it to the hole. He can't shoot"
Dude was the 21st most efficient scorer in the association last season. And of the 20 scorers more efficient than him, only 3 scored more points per 40min.
Dude hasn't had a TS% lower than 56% in the last eight seasons.
That's elite territory.
I understand there are weaknesses in his game. He's not well suited to being the number one option on a winning team. But assuming he chooses a good team to head to, he's not going to have to be the number one option. He's going to be a specialist.
And most good teams can use a guy who "gets the ball, puts his head down and takes it to the hole" and does that job well.
And for all you Boom Dizzle haters out there, all I can say is: fear the beard.
I'm a lefty. Labor is always correct and management is always wrong.
"That's possible. It is also possible that Orlando would have paid Vince instead of Rashard."
Orlando made the max offer to Rashard at 12:01am on the opening day of free agent season, thus soaking up all their cap space.
I really think that Vince had no place else to go if NJ had started him out at $8m/yr.
The Clippers will be fun to watch for sure, but I don't think Mobley and Thornton are the wings for a contender.
Not only did Baron walk away without the Warriors getting anything in return
Before the opt-out, the Warriors were barely under the cap. After the opt-out, they've got a lot of breathing room.
I'm trying not to hold it against Baron, but the way he left is a little messed up. Why the subterfuge?
He (through his agent) has been quietly squawking in the last 2-3 weeks about opting out (or getting traded) -- no one believed he would go through with it.
I don't like how he left, or for whom he left us, but he was almost certainly going into his lame duck season for '08-'09. Now, we get to see if Monta can really handle PG duties, and if any of our lefty skinnies have any NBA game.
Orlando made the max offer to Rashard at 12:01am on the opening day of free agent season, thus soaking up all their cap space.
It was clear by that point Vince was going back to NJ.
Yep, now I read that the Warriors offered Arenas something like 5 years at $100 million. Arenas is three years younger than Baron, and his injury history isn't as bad. But on the other hand, Baron was healthy last year and Gilbert wasn't, and, Baron is clearly a superior player. Better rebounder, passer, and defender, by large margins in all 3, and he could probably score at close to Gilbert's rate if he was a ball hog like Gilbert is. I'd also rather have Baron leading my team. Now that Baron is gone, I'd like to have Arenas on the Warriors, but if Mullin would rather have Arenas, then Mullin is dumb.
There is news that GSW have offered Brand a lengthy multi year contract that the Clippers cannot match. If (and it is a big if) Brand is healthy, his addition to the GSW would be greater than the loss of Davis.
Brand ain't going to Golden State. The whole reason he opted out was so the Clips could sign Baron, and then re-sign Brand for less money. Sure, the Warriors could offer him more, but he knew when he was opting out that he was going to take a pay cut if the Clips got him some help.
I also disagree that Brand would be better than Baron for the Warriors, but he'd be close. That would be a nice team, if they could find a PG (I still think Monta works best as an undersized 2, but even if he's at the point, he needs a steady hand to help him out/back him up).
Comments closed July 15, 2008.
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Heads in the Sand
And don't forget they'll still have the newly-emergent Chris Kaman in the middle.
Not enough to make them a contender in the West, but they're at least back in the conversation for the #7 and #8 seeds.
Posted by right | July 2, 2008 1:32 AM