Driving Down the 101

Kevin Drum is trying to find the answer to a question I asked him when I was in Orange County a little while back -- why is it that in southern California they use the definite article when referring to highways by number? Here on the east coast we drive on "I-95" or just "66" but over there they have "the 101." Thus far, his research isn't turning up anything very convincing. Anyone over in these parts have any thoughts? My pet theory has to do with Phantom Planet:

When I first heard this song, I thought they said "the 101" just in order to give their lyric enough syllables. Then I learned that's how everyone talks in that part of the country. But what if the band just brainwashed people into thinking they talk that way? Think about it.

Comments

It's cause SoCal's populated by douchebags.

No, seriously.

Posted by Dakota | July 28, 2008 1:47 PM

I'm pretty sure it comes from using the freeway names: *the* Ventura freeway, *the* San Diego freeway, *the* harbor freeway. For some reason, when people stopped using the names and went to the #s, they kept the "the."

Posted by too many steves | July 28, 2008 1:50 PM

Misguided by the 405 'cause it lead me to an alcoholic summer.
I missed the exit to your parents' house hours ago.

Apparently they do it in Seattle too.

Posted by mk | July 28, 2008 1:50 PM

I would like to point out that we in Northern California do not refer to freeways using the definite article like those undesireables in Southern California.

Posted by Fighting Words | July 28, 2008 1:51 PM

Interesting choice. I figured you'd have gone with Death Cab's "405."

Posted by Trevor J | July 28, 2008 1:51 PM

Back in the day, when California renumbered their highways, they instituted a rule saying that each number could only correspond to one highway, be it state route, U.S. Route, or Interstate. (I.e. there's no California Route 5, or 80, or 101, because those are already assigned to federal roads.)

Thus, the definite article is appropriate.

Posted by scythia | July 28, 2008 1:55 PM

Mixed messages: Death Cab's song about "the 405" is just called "405."

Posted by SDM | July 28, 2008 1:55 PM

I used to like this song. Listening to it again, there is so much to dislike in the vocals. The delivery is annoyingly affected and melodramatic, reminiscent of a college a cappella group.

Posted by mk | July 28, 2008 1:57 PM

Mixed messages: Death Cab's song about "the 405" is just called "405."

Posted by SDM | July 28, 2008 1:58 PM

I would like to point out that we in Northern California do not refer to freeways using the definite article like those undesireables in Southern California.

Um, for real? I'm not a native Californian, but in SF we refer to "the 280" and "the 101" all the time.

Posted by scythia | July 28, 2008 1:58 PM

What's not to understand about this?

It is "the 101 freeway". We just remove the "freeway" part, and call it "the 101".

"Let's take the car on the 101."

or

"Let's take car on 101."

?

Posted by Volum | July 28, 2008 1:59 PM

I feel I am uniquely qualified to contribute here, having grown up in Rhode Island, went to college in Maryland, and went to law school in LA.
I noticed that I immediately adopted use of the "the" instinctively, without thinking about it. However, this only applies to SoCal roads. So while I'll refer to "the 10" and "the 405," when I talk to my family and friends back east, I'll refer to "95."

I think this maybe is because that just how I know the roads. I always heard 95 referred to as 95, so I call it 95. Likewise, I have always heard the 10 referred to as the 10, so I call it the 10.

Posted by UberMitch | July 28, 2008 2:00 PM

Fighting Words, what happens when you go to SoCal? Do you add the "the"? When I'm in the Bay Area I usually drop the "the" to refer to Bay Area freeways ... but what if you're talking about the 101, which is in both places? Does it go from "the 101" to "101" somewhere around San Luis Obispo?

Posted by too many steves | July 28, 2008 2:00 PM

A theory: The original freeways all had names: The Pasadena Freeway, the Hollywood Freeway, the Harbor Freeway. (Are any of the names used today by anyone? I haven't been back in more than a decade.) Some also had numbers but the names where what everybody used.

When they stopped giving the new ones names, you would hear the radio traffic reporters say "The Harbor is a parking lot between downtown and Century, but the 805" [if there is such a highway] "is less miserable than usual." And that's how the numbers came to have the definite article attached.

Dunno if that's the story but I'd make a modest bet on it.

Posted by roac | July 28, 2008 2:00 PM

too many steves is onto it: in socal we call them freeways, not highways. when you're referring to a freeway, you call it "the 134 freeway" or "the 101 freeway," and when you drop the word "freeway" you're left with the 134 and the 5. on the other hand, in parts of the country where people call them highways, they talk about "highway 91" or "highway 28," and when they drop the word "highway," they're left with just 91 or 28.

dialectological etymology!!

Posted by don | July 28, 2008 2:02 PM

I think there is a new post by Kevin, but I'm not convinced.

My theory is that it is a convenient shorthand needed to help manage the number of highways you have to use to get from one location to another. There are highways everywhere, some are short.

Now imagine giving directions that required using four or five highways just to go ten miles. If you replace "highway 101" with "the 101", and do the same for the other highways, it makes it easier to understand. If you use long names instead of the number, you might confuse that with actual street names. One wrong or missed exit in their highway system could send you miles away from where you wanted to go and require lots of work to backtrack.

In Seattle, there is I-5, I-90 and I-405 and SR-520 and SR-99. There is no confusion about what highway to use to get anywhere, there is only one logical choice. We call these highways 5, 90, 405, 520, 99.

_The_ real question is why the show "The OC" has the "the".

Posted by tomj | July 28, 2008 2:03 PM

As a native Angelino, I have no idea why we do it but I can certainly make a guess.

I'd say it's done out of reverance to the freeways. For example, the 110 and the 101 in particular are two of the most historic and unique freeways in the entire country. It would be a disservice to refer to them as just a number. The least we can all do is add the T-H-E. We also spend lots of time on the freeways around here. They define us.

Why do we then refer to the 1 as PCH but not "the PCH"???

Posted by bum | July 28, 2008 2:07 PM

I think Don wins.

Posted by scythia | July 28, 2008 2:07 PM

Whoa -- back the truck up a minute. scythia, if you ever hear someone refer to "the 280," it means they're not from Northern California. Unless things have really, really changed in the 10 years since I last lived up there.

Posted by too many steves | July 28, 2008 2:07 PM

But Matthew, here in your native city, we do have one peculiar bit of speech, we say "On The Bowery" instead of "On Bowery." This is, I assume, because it used to refer to the neighborhood the Bowery, not just the street. So, there could be something about a stronger frame of reference--a city, a neighborhood--that makes definite articles stick.

Posted by Joel W | July 28, 2008 2:08 PM

Chicago is worse - here expressways are called by names, not their numbers. I90/94 south of the Circle Interchange (one of the best examples of terrible engineering) is "the Dan Ryan". North of the Circle, I90/94 is "the Kennedy", although I94 splits off at "the junction" to become "the Edens". I90 continues as the Kennedy out to O'Hare Airport. I-190 is the segment that goes into the airport. I-90 becomes a toll highway as it passes O'Hare. It was called the Northwest Tollway but was recently renamed after Jane Addams - which must make her spin in her grave.

Next lesson, "the Eisenhower", "the Hillside Strangler", "the Stevenson", "the Bishop Ford". and "the Tri-State". In future lessons, "the Elgin-O'Hare" - which does not go to Elgin or O'Hare.

Posted by Martin | July 28, 2008 2:09 PM

Rephrasing what too many steves, don and I all said: To Angelenos the numbers aren't numbers, they're names.. Hence "the."

Posted by roac | July 28, 2008 2:09 PM

While we're at it, why do those wacky Brits say "She's in hospital" rather than "She's in the hospital?"

Posted by Mixner | July 28, 2008 2:09 PM

I (a midwesterner) had talked through this very issue with a friend form California not too long ago. We sort of came to the conclusion that whereas Interstate highways are really widely developed east of the Mississippi, to the west they rely more on US Highways and state highways instead of interstates.

So I think it's a regional thing. If interstates are more widely used near you, you're used to using the "I" as a prefix before the interstate's number. If, on the other hand, you live in California where state and US routes have developed rather than interstates, you use "the" before the route number.

Posted by Zachary | July 28, 2008 2:11 PM

Chicago is worse - here expressways are called by names, not their numbers. I90/94 south of the Circle Interchange (one of the best examples of terrible engineering) is "the Dan Ryan". North of the Circle, I90/94 is "the Kennedy", although I94 splits off at "the junction" to become "the Edens". I90 continues as the Kennedy out to O'Hare Airport. I-190 is the segment that goes into the airport. I-90 becomes a toll highway as it passes O'Hare. It was called the Northwest Tollway but was recently renamed after Jane Addams - which must make her spin in her grave.

Next lesson, "the Eisenhower", "the Hillside Strangler", "the Stevenson", "the Bishop Ford". and "the Tri-State". In future lessons, "the Elgin-O'Hare" - which does not go to Elgin or O'Hare.

Posted by Martin | July 28, 2008 2:11 PM

Wisconsin also has unique highway numbers for state, local, and federal roads, but nobody uses the definite article.

Here in Philly, everything is route this and route that, which annoys the crap out of me for some reason.

Posted by Matt B | July 28, 2008 2:11 PM

In Colorado, we call the interstates "I-25" and "I-70." If you said, "Let's take the 25," I'm pretty sure someone would ask, "Take the 25 what?"

Posted by Just Dropping By | July 28, 2008 2:11 PM

People from the Buffalo area (where several of my relatives reside) add "the" to expressway names. Wikipedia even mentions it:

Another notable feature is the addition of the definite article to road and place names at what are perceived to be unnatural times by speakers of standard American English; this most often occurs with expressways. "The" precedes all expressways and main thoroughfares in the Buffalo area; e.g., "the 90," "the 290," "the 33," "the 190," "the 400." One would never hear "take 90 east" from a native Buffalonian. Instead, one would hear "take the 90 east.

Posted by cr | July 28, 2008 2:12 PM

I (a midwesterner) had talked through this very issue with a friend from California not too long ago. We sort of came to the conclusion that whereas Interstate highways are really widely developed east of the Mississippi, to the west they rely more on US Highways and state highways instead of interstates.

So I think it's a regional thing. If interstates are more widely used near you, you're used to using the "I" as a prefix before the interstate's number. If, on the other hand, you live in California where state and US routes have developed rather than interstates, you use "the" before the route number.

Posted by Zachary | July 28, 2008 2:12 PM

Indeed, steves. As a SJ native and current, it's "280," "101," "17," etc. Adding a "the" would be...you know...hella wrong. Or something. Also, the idea that it's because you say "the 101 freeway" instead of "highway 99" doesn't quite work for me. We have the Lawrence and Central Expressways that everyone would just refer to as "Lawrence" or "Central."

Posted by Alex | July 28, 2008 2:17 PM

tms,

Like I said, I'm not native. And I don't talk in person to many outside of my generation. But even the Bay Area kids my age who were born and raised here use the definite article when referring to freeways. The only time I've ever heard 280 sans "the" is when calling 511.

I would argue that it's just a sign of geographical barriers to communication collapsing in the digital age. Like the adoption of LOL as a verb, hopefully this is but a harbinger of the glorious day when "U" takes its rightful place among "I" as a single-letter pronoun.

Posted by scythia | July 28, 2008 2:18 PM

scythia, if you don't mind my asking, how old are you? They're raising kids in the Bay Area to say "the" in front of the freeway numbers? Seriously, this is shaking my faith in humanity. They'll have to invent a new reason to feel superior to Southern Californians! I'm 30, and I never heard anyone say "the 101" until I moved to Southern California.

Posted by too many steves | July 28, 2008 2:23 PM

I'm with don, but I'd add one more thought. Since we don't use the "I" before 110 or 5 or 405 perhaps we are compensating for the lack of syllabic rhythm by replacing the "I" with a "the". But who knows.

One more thing for tomj: I've lived in Orange County for 20 years but never heard my area referred to as "OC", with or without the "the", until the TV show. It's a Hollywood construct, and most people who have lived here for any time don't use that designation. I always just say I'm from San Juan Capistrano. Unfortunately the media is now looking to pin an acronym on anything geographical, leading to the Inland Empire (a misnomer that was laughable to begin with) being suddenly referred to as the IE.

And let's not even start on a conversation about what's remotely "real" about the Housewives of Orange County...

Posted by halliep | July 28, 2008 2:24 PM

More evidence to consider:

Tom Petty's American Girl (set in LA, but referencing a Florida highway): "She could the cars roll by out on 441"

Delinquent Habits' Lower East Side (LA): "place between the 5 and the 91, north of Alondra"

Posted by tom veil | July 28, 2008 2:24 PM

Haha, I'm 27. Maybe I just hang out with a lot of transplants (I do live in SF, after all).

Posted by scythia | July 28, 2008 2:25 PM

What's great about Los Angeles is that while the signs 99% of the time just refer to the freeway number, and people will give you directions using only freeway numbers, the traffic reporters stick to the old freeway names. So, if you aren't familiar with names such as The Harbor Freeway, Golden State Freeway, the Orange Crush or the 4-Level, then you're basically screwed.

Posted by bum | July 28, 2008 2:25 PM

Matt, I love your blog but please... no more Phantom Planet references.

Let's allow them to melt into the dustbin of history with The Rembrandts, Ugly Kid Joe, Tonic and countless other forgettably below-average bands. Come on, there are kids who might be reading this. Think of the kids!

Posted by Jason Schwartzman | July 28, 2008 2:28 PM

People in Northern Califoirnia DO NOT use the definite article in refering to freeways. BTW, in the West we built FREEways, in distinction to the toll roads (turnpikes) back East. The roads in the West were all free, with the exception of the bridges. Both freeways and turnpikes are highways.

But no one in Northern CA calls it "the 101" or "the 280", and if they do, we know they are from the Southland. Occasionally a few radio transplants or ads do, but no real people do.

Some interstates that were NOT US highways (like I-5) are always called I-5. And I-80 (which used to be US 40 before it became an interstate, at least until it a good way east) is sometimes I-80 and sometimes just 80. Its spurs (280, 380, 480, 580, 680, 880) are more often I-280 etc because they are also new, but not always. And 101, which was old US 101 is always just 101, as is 99, for the same reason. Our CA Highway 1 is Hiway 1, not your Route 1, and in fact we never use Route out here, except maybe for Route 66.

My theory is that it was probably started by some drive-time DJ or more likely traffic reporter in SoCal and it just mindlessly spread as a fad, as things so often do down there.

Posted by Mimikatz | July 28, 2008 2:29 PM

I live, and grew up, in the Bay Area. The use of "the" before highway names is now, and always has been, a marker that the speaker is from SoCal (either a visitor, or a recent transplant). People who move here from SoCal generally drop the "the" pretty quickly, so I don't know who scythia is hanging out with.

In the Bay Area, highway numbers are generally short for either "highway XXX" ("highway 101", "highway 17") or "interstate XXX" ("interstate 280"). In conversation, people are a little more likely to drop "interstate" than "highway" (for obvious reasons). But if someone was to give directions to go from Palo Alto to Santa Cruz, I would expect them to say something like "take 101 south to 85, then 85 to 17 south".

(That most of the highways in the greater San Jose area are 1) north/south and 2) intersect each other at right angles, is an interesting topic best saved for another thread).

Posted by Dave in California | July 28, 2008 2:32 PM

Gotta rebut scythia - as a 21 year old who was in the East Bay all the way until college, you just don't hear the article in the Bay Area.

Posted by Jeff | July 28, 2008 2:32 PM

Gotta rebut scythia - as a 21 year old who was in the East Bay all the way until college, you just don't hear the article in the Bay Area.

Posted by Jeff | July 28, 2008 2:35 PM

I stand corrected.

Posted by scythia | July 28, 2008 2:35 PM

In the ridiculously good "Baseball" by Ozma, they sing "straight up I-5"

So different usage for different roads, I guess.

Posted by par 3 | July 28, 2008 2:37 PM

As a "wacky Brit" I assume we say "she's in hospital" as opposed to "she's in the hospital" either because it's used as a general term rather than referring to a specific place or it's just laziness.
Incidentally we also use use the definite article for roads, but somehow "the M6" or "the A52" doesn't sound quite so alluring as "the 101".

Posted by Russell | July 28, 2008 2:43 PM

Now that that is settled, can someone explain why people in NYC wait "on line" and everyone in CA, north or south, (probably everyone everywhere who wasn't once a New Yorker) waits "in line"?

Posted by Mimikatz | July 28, 2008 2:43 PM

Another native Angeleno here to add my vote to the proper names theory. The Ventura Freeway. The San Diego Freeway. Etc. I think the reason our freeways were originally commonly known by their names is that L.A. was one of the first if not the first to have them, and they were of course heavily promoted as teh awesome, so giving them names rather than just referring to them by number was a way of glamorizing them. I do believe though that within a decade we will conform to the rest of the country and drop the "the."

Posted by bobbo | July 28, 2008 2:44 PM

Now that that is settled, can someone explain why people in NYC wait "on line" and everyone in CA, north or south, (probably everyone everywhere who wasn't once a New Yorker) waits "in line"?

My guess is that "on," like "for," is an preposition commonly used with the verb "wait." So even though "wait in line" makes more sense spatially, "wait on line" sounds better idiomatically, and that is why those closer to the motherland retain its usage.

But I already screwed the pooch on the freeway question, so maybe I should keep my mouth shut.

Posted by scythia | July 28, 2008 2:48 PM

my theory is that california used to be mexico and in spanish, they refer to things like highways with the definite article. thus, "el cinco" becomes "the five" and in central america, the panamerican highway is referred to as "el panamericano" and not "panamericano" or "ruta panamericana". i just think it has to do with the spanish language heritage of the region being translated into english. at least that's what i thought when i was living in berkeley.
cheers,
dave b.

Posted by dave berzonsky | July 28, 2008 2:50 PM

I think it's the same principle as the Eskimos having fifty words for snow, or whatever.

Northern Californians don't do this at all -- it's just 101, I-5, Highway 1, etc., never with "the." Mostly we don't use the "I" for Interstate, altho this varies. 5, for being one syllable, frequently gets the I; 280, 68- and 580, rarely. State Highway 101, which is mostly a freeway, is just 101, while the lesser State Highways like 49 and 99 usually get "Highway" before them.

Southern Californians not only use "the" for every freeway, but they use the numbers and the names interchangeably -- which can be confusing, since the same number freeway can have many different names. Northern Californians never use names. We'd never call 1-280 "The Junipero Serra."

Now how about soda pop and sub sandwiches?

Posted by Alan in SF | July 28, 2008 2:51 PM

As a South Bay denizen (still in the Bay Area, mind), I take 280 into the City if 101 is too congested. I take 5 down to LA. We don't need those Southern barbarians infecting our pristine and perfectly clear language with their decadent articles.

(This is probably the most defining bit of regionalist pride when it comes to the Nor/SoCal divide.)

Posted by Leee | July 28, 2008 2:52 PM

Scythia,

I'm 32, I work in downtown SF, and I have lived in the East Bay most of my life. When I visit my girlfriend in San Jose, or my parents in Fremont, I take 880 or 101-South. NOT "the 880" or "the 101." Most people who grew up in the Bay Area don't use the definite article when describing freeways. In fact, the first time I ever heard people say that was when I went to Cal for undergrad - where most of the students are from SoCal.

To be fair, a lot of people who currently live in San Francisco are transplants, and a lot are from down south. Additionally, my Father still refers to 880 as "The Nimitz." But, in general, we don't add a "the" in front of freeways.

Additionally, I don't know anyone who refers to highways as "Interstate" or "I." As in "I-580" or "I-880."

Too Many Steves,

When I travel to LA, I proudly wear my 49ers/Giants/A's/Raiders/Warriors/Sharks gear. Especially my SF Giants cap with its bold SF logo (too bad the Giants...are not very good now). Anyway, when I visit friends in LA, I just say 101...because, well, it's a sign of cultural identity. Also, because that's what I have always called it.

Posted by Fighting Words | July 28, 2008 2:54 PM

I think it's the same principle as the Eskimos having fifty words for snow, or whatever.

Northern Californians don't do this at all -- it's just 101, I-5, Highway 1, etc., never with "the." Mostly we don't use the "I" for Interstate, altho this varies. 5, being one syllable, frequently gets the I; 280, 680, and 580, never. State highway 101, which is mostly a freeway, is just 101, while the lesser state highways like 49 and 99 always get "Highway" before them.

Southern Californians not only use "the" for every freeway, but they use the numbers and the names interchangeably -- which can be confusing, since the same number freeway can have many different names. Northern Californians never use names. We'd never call I-280 "The Junipero Serra."

Now how about soda pop, sub sandwiches, and creeks?

Posted by Alan in SF | July 28, 2008 2:54 PM

Yet another reason Northern and Southern California really should be two states. They don't even speak the same language.

Posted by flory | July 28, 2008 2:56 PM

"my theory is that california used to be mexico and in spanish, they refer to things like highways with the definite article."

This can be tested-do they use "the" in Texas? No, y'all say? Then the spanish thing can't be right.

My SoCal friends who thought about such things always ascribed it to a combo of the proper names and traffic report clarity (i.e., "the 5" v. "the 405" or "the 101" v "the 110" makes for greater clarity). Never, ever, ever heard an EsEff native use "the" with any NorCal freeway.

Posted by zaleriana | July 28, 2008 2:58 PM

I throw my lot with the Proper Name theory. Thirty years ago I would have been told that to go from Downtown LA to Chatsworth, I'd have to take the Hollywood to the Ventura to the San Diego North. Now its take the 101 (Hollywood and Ventura both the 101) to the 405 north.

Posted by Shine | July 28, 2008 3:02 PM

Leee,

No. The most defining bit of regionalist pride when it comes to the Nor/SoCal divide is when you hear on the news, "a fight breaks out between Giants fans and Dodger fans," and you immediately think, "I hope the Giants fan kicked his ass."

Posted by Fighting Words | July 28, 2008 3:02 PM

(This is probably the most defining bit of regionalist pride when it comes to the Nor/SoCal divide.)

No, that would be the use of the word "hella".

Posted by miguel | July 28, 2008 3:08 PM

Well, if you think about it, numbers are adjectives:

"_____ dogs"

can be filled with either "red" or "two".

So adding a definite article in front of a highway number makes it more of a noun, and highways are definitely nouns.

I live on Rt. 128 (ha!) in Boston, where nounification is optional, or at most done the way I just did. More time saved to be a Red Sox fan.

When I go to my old haunts in San Diego, however, I drop back into "the #" habits quite easily.

Posted by AAARRRRGGGHHH | July 28, 2008 3:08 PM

I think the reason our freeways were originally commonly known by their names is that L.A. was one of the first if not the first to have them

That's right.

The Pasadena was the very first. It was originally called the Arroyo Seco, though.

Posted by roac | July 28, 2008 3:09 PM

One can speculate, but it's not always helpful to go on the assumption that usage has to have a reason. It's probably false about pretty much any fashion, but language adds to the picture what structural linguistics liked to call the arbitrary relationship between sign and signifier.

Etymology is fun, and the proper-name theory has a certain plausibility, but just bear in mind that the New York area has oodles of proper names. I can't identify many numbered roads, but I can probably locate the New York State Thruway, the Belt Parkway, the BQE, the New Jersey Turnpike, the LIE, the Garden State Parkway, etc., etc. Now if I could only reliably find my way coming south into Manhattan over that free bridge instead of the Triborough.

Posted by JohnH | July 28, 2008 3:09 PM

Well, if you think about it, numbers are adjectives:

"_____ dogs"

can be filled with either "red" or "two".

So adding a definite article in front of a highway number makes it more of a noun, and highways are definitely nouns.

I live on Rt. 128 (ha!) in Boston, where nounification is optional, or at most done the way I just did. More time saved to be a Red Sox fan.

When I go to my old haunts in San Diego, however, I drop back into "the #" habits quite easily.

Posted by AAARRRRGGGHHH | July 28, 2008 3:12 PM

i think bum has the most accurate explanations. i would only add that, as a former resident of Seattle, and currently of LA (but never, never SF--keep up the citywide self-lovin' wank-fest guys b/c nobody else cares), the appalling dearth of non-freeway options for transport around most parts of both cities leaves us entirely dependent on them (and here I will stipulate to BART/MUNI superiority among the west coast cities...but it's ONE aspect of a city). We therefore tend to anthropomorphize and glorify "the" them, despite their general shittyness as actual structures for, ya' know, moving people places.

And I hear "the PCH" a lot....a transplant thing? Rogue traffic reporters with an agenda?...

Posted by exiledinLA | July 28, 2008 3:12 PM

Not get too far off topic, but why do English people leave out the article "the" when referring to hospitals and universities? "He went to hospital." "He attended university." Somebody clarify that one for me. As a former Bostonian living in California, I say "the" when in LA and leave it out when in SF. Following the natives, I guess. But the highway still remains the expressway, never the freeway. And I like my thoroughfares, too.

Posted by jeer9 | July 28, 2008 3:13 PM

i think bum has the most accurate explanations. i would only add that, as a former resident of Seattle, and currently of LA (but never, never SF--keep up the citywide self-lovin' wank-fest guys b/c nobody else cares), the appalling dearth of non-freeway options for transport around most parts of both cities leaves us entirely dependent on them (and here I will stipulate to BART/MUNI superiority among the west coast cities...but it's ONE aspect of a city). We therefore tend to anthropomorphize and glorify "the" them, despite their general shittyness as actual structures for, ya' know, moving people places.

And I hear "the PCH" a lot....a transplant thing? Rogue traffic reporters with an agenda?...

Posted by exiledinLA | July 28, 2008 3:14 PM

Fighting Words, you're right, los Gigantes' suckitude made me forget. Remember that time where a Giants fan killed a Dodgers fan? That was great!

Posted by Leee | July 28, 2008 3:14 PM

The real question is why the show "The OC" has the "the".

Don't call it that.

Posted by Michael Bluth | July 28, 2008 3:15 PM

1. As a student at UC Berkeley a million years ago, at that time freeways in the SF Bay area also had names. Thus we had the Nimitz freeway, the MacArthur Freeway, the Embarcadero Freeway, etc.

2. As can be inferred from some of the comments on this thread, folks in the SF Bay area consider folks from south of Tejon Pass to be foreigners and somehow lesser beings.

Posted by SLC | July 28, 2008 3:22 PM

I live in the Bay Area and never say "the 101" or "the 280" and never hear anyone else refer to them in that way. It's simply "101" or "280".

Posted by blah | July 28, 2008 3:22 PM

I'd Midwest transplant to Santa Cruz, which is sort of a Bay Area outlier. We're connected to San Jose through a windy mountain highway, Highway 17, that becomes I880 in San Jose. I've spent almost no time in SoCal in my 6 years in CA (praise be to Jeebus) but yet I have the distinct impression that Californians in general use the definite article. The commenters here who protest that never would anyone from NorCal ever ever ever use "the" to refer to a highway like those losers from SoCal just sounds like straight-up BS to me--regionalism in search of evidence.

I will grant that I rarely hear "the" used in directions (take 17 north to 85 north to 280 to SF). But I hear it when the speaker is referring to a highway on its own. People in Santa Cruz absolutely use a definite article when referring to Highway 1 and Highway 17: "the 17 was awful today" or "I sat on the 1 for half an hour because some moron let the entire contents of his beater pickup fall out on the road." (Seriously, the traffic reports here are hilarious--there's always some cooler or lawn chair or goat in the road somewhere.) I think its because Californians have to personalize everything such that even highways get a personality. Back in the Midwest, heartland values make people keep everything identical and indefinite.

Posted by Loneoak | July 28, 2008 3:24 PM

I think what this thread really illustrates is the need for a Bay Area YglesiasCon. We could call it "Yayglaysias '08!"

Posted by scythia | July 28, 2008 3:25 PM

Leee,

I was thinking of that exact same incident.

Posted by Fighting Words | July 28, 2008 3:27 PM

I grew up in Washington State, very close to Highway 101, and we never referred to it as "the 101." Just "101."

Re the Death Cab song, it's true that you could say "the 405" or "the 520," but you would not normally say "the I-90" or "the I-5."

Posted by Gabriel | July 28, 2008 3:28 PM

Leee,

I was thinking of that exact same incident.

Posted by Fighting Words | July 28, 2008 3:28 PM

Leee,

I was thinking of that exact same incident.

Posted by Fighting Words | July 28, 2008 3:28 PM

I love Santa Cruz, Loneoak, but culturally speaking it's the northernmost tip of SoCal.

Posted by scythia | July 28, 2008 3:30 PM

SLC,

Your second point is not necessarily true. The rivalries between Nor-Cal and SoCal are basically due to: 1) Sports, and 2) politics (they have more SoCal representation in California). But basically, I like LA, and when people from outside CA start to bash LA, I usually try defend LA.

Besides, if it wasn't for Los Angeles, California would be the reddest state in the US.

Although I do have to say, when I was a Cal student in the late 1990's, SoCal students complained about everything.

Posted by Fighting Words | July 28, 2008 3:37 PM

Matt--

We do this in Ontario too--we have "The 401," one of the busiest freeways in North America; "The QEW," which stands for Queen Elizabeth Way, and also gets shortened to simply "The QE"; and any number of highways and freeways, which have their "highway" designation lopped off.

-Anthony

Posted by Anthony | July 28, 2008 3:46 PM

I was born & raised in San Francisco, but my Dad was born & raised in L.A.* He raised me to refer to freeways without the definite article. This phenomenon is a modern Socal invention. It speaks to their unhealthy obsession with driving, and it must be stamped out completely if we are ever to become fossil fuel independent.

*When I say LA, I mean in Los Angeles, not fucking San Dimas or Van Nuys, you asshats...

Posted by baiowulf | July 28, 2008 3:46 PM

Matt B said... Here in Philly, everything is route this and route that, which annoys the crap out of me for some reason.

Philadelphia has the same issue as mentioned by several people above, the use of names in the traffic reports which leaves any out-of-towner totally clueless. The Roosevelt Blvd. is Rt. 1, at least until Rt. 1 becomes City Ave. The Schuylkill Expressway is part of I-76, but the Pennsylvania Turnpike is another part of I-76 ... except the part of the turnpike called the Northeast Extension which is I-476 ... well, part of I-476, because the southern part is the Blue Route, named after the color it was on the planning map. At least I-95 makes sense.

Posted by LFC | July 28, 2008 3:49 PM

Fighting Words: Additionally, my Father still refers to 880 as "The Nimitz."
I'm probably not quite as old as your father (I'm 51) but I am surprised he doesn't still refer to it as "17." It took me a decade or two to get used to "880."

Also...when I was a Cal student in the late 1990's, SoCal students complained about everything.

Some things never change: when I was there (late 70s) they would ostentatiously subscribe to the LA Times (which was expensive and not easy to do in those days) rather than subject themselves to the Chronicle.

Posted by Tom | July 28, 2008 3:54 PM

thanks scythia!

Posted by don | July 28, 2008 3:55 PM

Oh, yeah. And good luck to any visitor trying to figure out where the "Lee Tire Curve" is on the Schuylkill Expressway, now that the old Lee Tire building has been renamed. Of course, it may now be the "Spring Mill Curve", something you can figure out by reading the name on the office building across the river as you sit still in traffic.

Posted by LFC | July 28, 2008 3:56 PM

My folks in Raleigh tell me about a new road down there that is known locally as "the 540".

So whatever it is, it's spreading...

Posted by Ethel-To-Tilly | July 28, 2008 3:56 PM

First off, we've been doing this for long, long before Phantom Planet existed. God you're a whippersnapper, Matt.

Anyway, when I visit friends in LA, I just say 101...because, well, it's a sign of cultural identity.

When I visit that quaint town by the Bay, I say "the 101" and "the 280" because it sounds natural to me; the fact that it peeves the Barry Bonds apologists is just icing on the cake.

I'm of the opinion that it definitely comes from the days when we referred to the freeways by their names, which was up through the 80s. I think one reason we stopped doing that was that Caltrans stopped giving freeways nice, compact, geographically sensible names.

"Simi Valley-San Fernando Valley Freeway" was too long for anybody to say, but when they changed it to the "Ronald Reagan Freeway," it just became offensive. The 105 was originally going to be the Century Freeway, but then it became the Glenn M. Anderson Freeway, a name nobody has ever used in casual conversation. Then you got things like "Glendale Police Officer Charles A. Lazzaretto Memorial Freeway," which I'm sure was a nice gesture to the Lazzaretto family, but is a sure way to guarantee that people will be referring to the number (the 134), not the name.

Also, it just sounds better. What is "91?" It's just a number. "The 91," however, brings heft. That's a designation worthy of a freeway.

I should note that in California there is a distinction made between a freeway and an expressway. A freeway is limited access and has no at-grade intersections. An expressway, however, occasionally has at-grade intersections. Parts of the 71 (Corona Expressway) are like this, as is the west end of the 90 (Marina Expressway). If you drive the 101 up the coast, there are some significant non-freeway sections, also.

Posted by Adam Villani | July 28, 2008 3:58 PM

Remember that time where a Giants fan killed a Dodgers fan?
That was the first game I ever went to at Dodger Stadium. I was sitting way way up in that ultra-nosebleed upper upper deck above homeplate. My friends and I were seating directly between a class of special needs children. And it was thunderstick night. I assure you, those kids loved thundersticks.
The next day I learned of the fan-on-fan murder in the parking lot after the game.

Posted by UberMitch | July 28, 2008 4:02 PM

More textual evidence:

Looking out at the road rushing under my wheels —
Looking back at the years gone by like so many summer fields.
In '65 I was seventeen and running up 101
I don't know where I'm running now, I'm just running on ...

It's not definitive, since the "the" might be missing to make the meter work, but even in 1977 quintessential Angeleno Jackson Browne was saying "101" without the "the".

And yeah, it's silly, but in the Bay Area this is a very clear shibboleth. The easiest Bay Areaism to use this way would be saying "The City" as shorthand for San Francisco.

Posted by Pesto | July 28, 2008 4:05 PM

Does it go from "the 101" to "101" somewhere around San Luis Obispo?

I've actually tried to figure this out - seems like the extent of "the" goes as far north as the Northern borders of San Luis Obispo and Kern Counties.

So you pretty much hit the nail on the head. In SLO it's "the 101," and goes up to Paso Robles, but stops after that. Bakersfield uses "the 99." Fresno, inexplicably, uses the word "freeway" in front of everything, so it becomes "freeway 99," "freeway 41" and so on.

Posted by Evan | July 28, 2008 4:06 PM

In college, my roommate from San Mateo referred to the road El Camino Real unironically as "the El", which of course means "the The".

Posted by gogoosh | July 28, 2008 4:07 PM

Here's a bold theory: things tend to change from place to place. Yes, it's complicated.

Forget No-Cal/So-Cal, I went to France one time, and swear to god, it's like they had a different word for everything. If a pop song made them do that it must have been one hell of a song.

Posted by scuttlebutt | July 28, 2008 4:11 PM

In college, my roommate from San Mateo referred to the road El Camino Real unironically as "the El", which of course means "the The".

Having grown up there I have heard that used in the expression "Cruising the El" but not as a regular, general reference; we always called it "El Camino" sans Real. Cops refer to it as "ECR."

Posted by Tom | July 28, 2008 4:14 PM

I've lived about half my life in Ohio, half in Arizona.

In Arizona, we add "the" to all the numbered freeways, state and interstate alike ("the 17", "the 10", "the 101" -- we have one of those in Phoenix, too), just like Southern California. This has nothing to do with "proper names" of the roads since few people use them, and some (like the aforementioned 101 loop around Phoenix) don't have them.

In Ohio, no definite article (just "71", "77", "480", and the like).

One of those things I'd never considered before -- I just move (without thought) between using "the" when home in Arizona, and not using it when visiting my former home "Back East".

Curious to know the usage throughtout the states (including that giant, frozen 51st state up north there).

Posted by DFH no. 6 | July 28, 2008 4:21 PM

Well, if you think about it, numbers are adjectives:

"_____ dogs"

can be filled with either "red" or "two".

So adding a definite article in front of a highway number makes it more of a noun, and highways are definitely nouns.

I live on Rt. 128 (ha!) in Boston, where nounification is optional, or at most done the way I just did. More time saved to be a Red Sox fan.

When I go to my old haunts in San Diego, however, I drop back into "the #" habits quite easily.

Posted by AAARRRRGGGHHH | July 28, 2008 4:24 PM

As was pointed out in Kevin's comments, residents of Ontario, Canada also use the definite article, e.g. "the 401", "the 400", "the QEW". When I moved from Waterloo to Albuquerque, people mocked me mercilessly for talking about "the 40" and "the 25".

Posted by TerryVB | July 28, 2008 4:24 PM

I grew up in Orange County and we always said "OC" without the "the".

Posted by Vinny | July 28, 2008 4:32 PM

The Great Lakes regaion in general have similar patterns- see the soda/pop website where "pop" has a Great Lakes presence.

Being from WNY, I can assure you that, like in Chicago & Canada as posted, you'll get "the 90", but be careful when you're getting directions- if you're looking for "the 290" be sure to pay attention when someone says "The Youngmann", because that's what they're talking about. And don't forget "the Scajaquada" when they're talking about... you know what, I don't even think I know the route number for that highway!

Posted by Dave | July 28, 2008 4:40 PM

Let's not forget "surface streets."

I grew up in LA, then came east as one should and was perplexed to find others so perplexed by this term. "Surface street" obviously is any street that is not a freeway (i.e., is not elevated). In New York such things are known as "streets," pure and simple. In LA travel via non-freeway is exceptional enough that it warrants a special term.

Posted by Josh Carmichael | July 28, 2008 4:45 PM

"The easiest Bay Areaism to use this way would be saying "The City" as shorthand for San Francisco."

Just don't call it "Frisco."

Posted by too many steves | July 28, 2008 4:46 PM

"The easiest Bay Areaism to use this way would be saying "The City" as shorthand for San Francisco."

Just don't call it "Frisco."

Or "San Fran."

Posted by Fighting Words | July 28, 2008 4:53 PM

Just don't call it "Frisco."

Again, tms, I must respectfully disagree. That died with Caen. When you pass the Don't Call It Frisco laundromat, the paint is faded.

The passage of time, combined with the hipster influx into the City, along with the (somewhat) national prominence of the "Don't Call It Frisco" movement, means that it's now safe, and perhaps even fashionable, for denizens to ironically call their City "Frisco," IMO.

Personally, I find "San Fran" to be the more irritable nickname. That, to me, smacks of SoCal shorthand.

Posted by scythia | July 28, 2008 4:54 PM

Oh, wait, there's an even better Bay Area shibboleth:

How do you pronounce San Rafael?

Posted by Pesto | July 28, 2008 5:01 PM

Damn hipsters.

Posted by blah | July 28, 2008 5:01 PM

God, I hate hipsters. What kind of person, in the name of "irony," wears a t-shirt of a band he doesn't really like? Does he also listen to the band he doesn't like? If so, does he pretend to like it? All just so he can mock people who really like the band? It's just sad.

Posted by too many steves | July 28, 2008 5:19 PM

I'm from Monterey, and we always use "the." I never thought of it as a SoCal thing, but I guess it is. This raises another question. People from the Monterey Bay Area usually think of themselves as part of NorCal, at least culturally, if not geographically. Most don't like LA that much. So how did this LAism make its way into Monterey?

Posted by DAW | July 28, 2008 6:10 PM

Speaking as a former resident of Santa Cruz, current resident of San Luis Obispo... SC definitely doesn't use "the", and in SLO it varies depending on whether the people you're talking to are from NorCal or SoCal (I haven't figured out the local's preference yet, despite being here nearly a decade).

We do joke that the border between Northern and Southern CA is the Madonna Rd. overpass. The change in driving style really is that sudden and apparent sometimes.

Posted by yet another mike | July 28, 2008 6:24 PM

We do joke that the border between Northern and Southern CA is the Madonna Rd. overpass. The change in driving style really is that sudden and apparent sometimes.i>

Oh man, that's truth right there. I lived right off Madonna for a couple of years - it's jarring, especially going Southbound and getting the crazy crossswinds off of Dalidio Ranch (or maybe it's just jarring because I grew up in NorCal...)

Holy crap I miss SLO.

Fresno is just not the same.

Posted by Evan | July 28, 2008 6:36 PM

We do joke that the border between Northern and Southern CA is the Madonna Rd. overpass. The change in driving style really is that sudden and apparent sometimes.

Oh man, that's truth right there. I lived right off Madonna for a couple of years - it's jarring, especially going Southbound and getting the crazy crossswinds off of Dalidio Ranch (or maybe it's just jarring because I grew up in NorCal...)

Holy crap I miss SLO.

Fresno is just not the same.

Posted by Evan | July 28, 2008 6:36 PM

Is there anywhere in the world that you wouldn't miss if you lived there before Fresno?

Posted by too many steves | July 28, 2008 6:45 PM

Is there anywhere in the world that you wouldn't miss if you lived there before Fresno?

Youngstown, OH.

Posted by blah | July 28, 2008 6:56 PM

It's a dialect appearing. Southern Cal uses the definite article with freeway numbers, but the San Francisco Bay area does not - just listen to the traffic reports on the morning radio.

Posted by mark | July 28, 2008 7:14 PM

It's a dialect appearing. Southern Cal uses the definite article with freeway numbers, but the San Francisco Bay area does not - just listen to the traffic reports on the morning radio.

Posted by mark | July 28, 2008 7:15 PM

Another rock band connection: the title of the Minutemen double album Double Nickels on the Dime refers to driving 55 MPH on I-10. So that uses the definite article, too.

I-10 is also the highway D. Boon ended up dying on in a van crash. I guess you'd call that ironic (as well as tragic).

Posted by live | July 28, 2008 7:45 PM

In the KC area they refer to highways by number then highway. So rather than highway 210 they say 210 highway. I found it odd.

Posted by crack | July 28, 2008 7:47 PM

"I love Santa Cruz, Loneoak, but culturally speaking it's the northernmost tip of SoCal."

Scythia, this is the most ridiculous thing I've read all day and I read Novak's column in WaPo this morning. Especially since the NorCal brand of clothing that all you SF'ers wear is based in Santa Cruz. I suppose next you'll say Big Sur and Malibu are culturally identical?

I really love how there's like a dozen people on this thread saying that they live in NorCal and hear people use the definite article and then there's a whole series of "nuh-uh you don't hear that!" claims.

Posted by Loneoak | July 28, 2008 9:02 PM

I love Santa Cruz, Loneoak, but culturally speaking it's the northernmost tip of SoCal.

??? Surfers and skaters do not the SoCal make. The notion of Santa Cruz being SoCal boggles my mind. Scythia, I suggest conducting an informal survey of your acquaintances in Santa Cruz to see whether they consider themselves to be in Southern or Northern California.

Posted by Adam Villani | July 28, 2008 11:47 PM

Scythia, this is the most ridiculous thing I've read all day and I read Novak's column in WaPo this morning.

Well, that last part is on you.

Especially since the NorCal brand of clothing that all you SF'ers wear is based in Santa Cruz.

Well...not really. But leaving details aside for a momen--back when I lived in SC, I was fond of saying that Santa Cruz was NorCal on the outside, and SoCal on the inside, and I think that's a pretty fair estimation.

Now, this isn't something anyone can argue outside their own perceptions, so I apologize for my slant in this regard. FWIW, this is what I noticed objectively about Santa Cruz:

1. No walkable neighborhoods.
2. Car/freeway culture prominent.
3. Beach culture prominent.

All SoCal traits, not NorCal.

But aside from those (admittedly) minor details, I would say for me it all comes down to attitude.

I didn't want to turn this into a SF-vs-LA thread, but in my mind the basic differences between the two cultures is one of Love vs. Hate.

San Franciscans love everything. They love themselves, their city, their planet, their Prius, their grocery store, their own farts, everything. And they cannot wait to tell you about it.

Angelenos, by contrast, only seem to love to hate. They hate the guy sitting in traffic in front of them, that asshole in the club, that bitch on TV, that movie that's so big, that loser on the corner, that hairstyle you thought you liked, everything. It's about stratification and apathy.

I've never lived in LA, so my experiences are colored by the trips I've taken and who I choose to hang out with. But this is 80% of the conversations I've had in LA:

Me: "Oh, this is pretty cool."
LA: "You think this is 'cool,' bro? [snort]" followed by a story of the other thing/place/scene/movie which was "pretty cool" and to which the current object can't compare.

Anyway, these are gross oversimplifications, obviously. And not as Manichean as I've painted them to be--all the self-love tends to make SFians soft, and I've seen shit booed in LA that would have taken down SF.

So there are plusses and minuses to both. But I think the general attitudes are close to what I've compartmentalized.

And in that respect, SC is more like LA than SF. It's not a friendly place. Strangers do not talk to one another readily. Superficiality runs high. And there's a lot of effort expended trying to look not just cool, but unapproachable.

YMMV.

Posted by scythia | July 29, 2008 12:18 AM

I grew up in Northern California, in suburban Sacramento. (Is that redundant?) I had never, ever heard anyone use a definite article for a freeway until I went to Cal and had floormates from Southern California. So it's been going on for at least 20 years, probably longer.

Just to be perverse, I say "the 101" when I'm down south.

As for names: Bayshore, Nimitz, occasionally Eastshore. I recall that they started laying down the law with traffic reporters a few years back to use numbers, as it was too confusing to tourists/businesspeople from out of town. I've gotten used to "880" instead of "17", but it still sounds a little weird to me.

Posted by andrew | July 29, 2008 12:35 AM

scythia's descriptions aren't bad, and I actually like L.A. But there's another difference: the insecurity. San Franciscans seem to be spend a lot of time thinking about how lame L.A. is and how much better SF is. Angelenos don't think about this at all. It's a one-way rivalry. (Angelenos are too busy feeling, alternately, inferior or superior to New York to worry about feeling superior to San Francisco.)

But Santa Cruz does have a walkable downtown, scythia. And there are way too many hippies for it to be anything other than pure Northern California. The car/freeway culture is characteristic of both parts of the state. It's just the beach thing that makes Santa Cruz different.

Posted by too many steves | July 29, 2008 12:51 AM

Cf. The Mountain Goats. "Born Ready." Isopanisad Radio Hour, recorded 1999.

Posted by Michael Andersen | July 29, 2008 1:17 AM

In Santa Cruz it just really just comes to class conflict and distinctions of taste. It maybe a car culture but there are more Prius's there then in San Fransisco. The whole "asshole-ness" of the SC locals is due in part to the cities growth, lack of jobs and over crowding brought about due to hella factors such as the university, silcon valley, etc not to mention the worst landlords in the nation.
It's not surprising that the people who once called SC home can't find a job and pay rent in the town they grew up in, while the hypster's / Bike core kids colonize Cedar St. UCSC rocks though!

Posted by Jsco | July 29, 2008 3:08 AM

Pesto: I think we can dispense with the notion that Jackson Brown's lyrics are in any way dispositive on this topic by merely noting that in "I'm Alive" he references "rolling down California 5". While our 35M residents have many differences (see above, and below), NOBODY in CA calls (the) I-5 "California 5" I guess Jackson will torture any road name for a quick rhyming scheme.

As for scythia, well, I am at a loss. Ma'am, if you feel so truly loathed and put upon every time you traverse the Grapevine, then I recommend you just stay well north of it. I have many loves (and a few hates) in this great basin. But one of the quickest ways to get me to start hating stuff is to set me in front of visitors who just came to town and have them proceed to tell me what's wrong with this city and why nobody here "gets" them.

For the record, I don't commute 3 hrs a day, I don't wear $300 jeans, and I have no idea which underfunded state mental facility Britany Spears currently resides within. We're not all the same. But if, as I suspect, your crappy friends here only hang out at the Saddle Ranch, I could see why you might think that. So next time you come, explore the city (yes...in your car) or just spare yourself the trip and save us all the heartache.

Posted by exiledinLA | July 29, 2008 5:30 AM

Wow lots of comments. Sounds to me that it is the number of digits(3) anything with three is more comfy to say by adding "the" in front of it.
And it's all three, freeways& highways and expressways also it's pop&coney dogs

Posted by michmac | July 29, 2008 7:20 AM

Then let me offer another example of the same behavior.

The same thing happens here in Buffalo, why would that be the case?

Posted by KevDog | July 29, 2008 7:32 AM

Re Fighting Words

As somebody who is a native of Los Angeles and went to college at UC Berkeley, it was my experience that folks in Northern California look down their noses at folks in Southern California.

Re scythis

Referring to San Francisco as "Frisco" in front of a native of that city can get one a punch in the nose.

Posted by SLC | July 29, 2008 10:01 AM

'Not get too far off topic, but why do English people leave out the article "the" when referring to hospitals and universities? "He went to hospital." "He attended university." '

As far as hospitals are concerned, neither the American nor English usage makes sense. The sensible usage would be "He is in a hospital." Our use of "the" makes it seem like we only have one. Their lack of an article makes it seem like a state of being, like debt.

I suppose that there might have been a time when "In hospital" meant that someone was recuperating anywhere suitable to that activity.

Here in the US, over most of our history, most people who used the word "hospital" could only be referring to one possible hospital with which they were familiar.

Posted by Njorl | July 29, 2008 10:51 AM

jeer9

In northern England, definite articles are commonly dropped. This may be a relic of the period when it was a Viking Kingdom: there are several distinct norse-isms in the Yorkshire dialect for example. I believe Norse lacked the case and gender stuff that is in German.

'He went back to house' is not uncommon in the local dialects. This is particularly true around Newcastle (ie north east of Yorkshire, on the east coast, just below Scotland).

On 'university' that sounds normal to me 'he went to university' or 'he attended university' meaning that he continued education beyond high school as opposed to he made a special trip to a specific university (the university).

Went to hospital again implies generally that he visited a healthcare facility, not which one.

It may also simply be linguistic laziness ;-).

Some languages nouns always come with an attached article (Le Montreal ie The Montreal in French). Every French place name has a form which comes with it eg it's always a Paris (to Paris) not Le Paris or au Paris (from memory).

Other languages the article is implicit eg in the noun ending.

As others have observed, Toronto English is very Great Lakes, and has many similarities with Buffalo English. It's actually distinct from Central Ontario English, which is more 'Canadian' sounding (eh? ;-). However I think all of Ontario would say 'the 401' and 'the 407' and 'the QEW'. This is apparently also true in Montreal amongst English speakers.

Posted by Valuethinker | July 29, 2008 12:12 PM

The 110 is such a beautiful freeway, where it is called the "historic arroyo seco" east of the 5. The road creates such an experience when you twist through it's canyons and see "Welcome to South Pasadena and the overhangs heavy with bougainvillas. As a matter of fact I saw a coyote in the basin on the side of the 110 just Friday afternoon. There could never be another road designated 110 to me, it is THE 110. It speaks to the pure love and tingling freedom of being behind the wheel that you'll only really ever be able to embrace in Southern California.
See also Joan Didion's "Play it as it lays" for more freeway love.

Posted by Rofold | July 29, 2008 6:02 PM