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Hispanics And Pocketbooks

05 Jul 2008 09:37 am

In response to some new Spanish-language television ad from the McCain campaign, Rep. Xavier Becerra (D-CA) put out this statement (in English, as best I can tell) that the Obama campaign is sending around:

There's one thing Latinos have learned all too well after eight years of George Bush: politicians can say one thing, but it's what they actually do that counts. Senator John McCain's newest attack ad uses 'friends' to say one thing, but the facts show otherwise. If Senator McCain wants what's best for our families, he would not have voted against increased funds for our children's healthcare. And he would not have flip-flopped on his own legislation to firmly and fairly reform our broken immigration system. But he did. Senator Barack Obama has stood firmly with our families on all of these crucial issues. He did not flip-flop like Senator McCain. Bottom line: what's best for America and Latino families is a leader who won't flip-flop when it counts most.

I think that there's an important insight lurking amidst this campaign rhetoric, namely that I think the press and politicians often overstate the significance of the immigration issue to Hispanic politics. US politics mostly operates along a "culture war" dynamic with racial, ethnic, or religious blocs voting in highly divergent matters and this has long been the case. So as the Latino share of the vote increases, there's a tendency to seek out the key hot button issue for Latino voters and the view is that it must be immigration. McCain has (before flip-flopping and saying he would vote against his own bill) been a leader on pro-immigration reforms, ergo McCain should be able to appeal to Hispanic voters by emphasizing that fact.

If you look at it in detail, though, the Hispanic electorate mostly seems to vote the way Thomas Frank suggests everyone should in What's the Matter With Kansas -- poorer Hispanics vote Democratic, richer ones vote Republican, and social and cultural issues just don't seem to play very much. Because Hispanics are poorer-than-average this leads to a big pro-Democratic tilt. I think it's clear that Republicans can hurt themselves with the immigration issue by acting like racist demagogues but the GOP's primary problem with this voting group really is things like S-CHIP rather than a lack of sufficient immigration-related pandering.

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Comments (19)

but the GOP's primary problem with this voting group really is things like S-CHIP rather than a lack of sufficient immigration-related pandering.

If Hispanics have a tendency to vote for whoever offers them the most welfare goodies, and the GOP is agianst welfare goodies, it makes a lot of sense for the GOP not to want to add more Hispanics to our population.

Matt, on the other hand, wants to let more Hispanics immigrate precisely because he wants to add another reliably leftist voting bloc to the country.

He wants to "dissolve the people and elect another," as Betholdt Brecht once said of East Germany.

As for McCain's flip-flopping, don't worry Matt, as soon as he had the GOP nomination, he flopped back, suggesting that "immigration reform" (i.e. amnesty) should be a top priority.


Our immigration system is "broken" only because pols of both parties are being paid by CEOs not to enforce the laws already on the books. Once again we see how identity politics is the perfect boob bait to lure "progressives" into becoming the useful idiots of the BushCo/Wall Street cheap labor lobby.

If Hispanics have a tendency to vote for whoever offers them the most welfare goodies, and the GOP is agianst welfare goodies, it makes a lot of sense for the GOP not to want to add more Hispanics to our population.

I believe the term you're looking for here is "rational choice".

The wealthy, likewise, know that the Republicans will give them the most welfare goodies, and they vote Republican.

Voting is more complex than that - large minorities of the lower-class vote Republican and large minorities of the upper-class vote Democratic - but as a statistical thing, they're voting their interests in a pretty simple way.

The key line in Matt's post is "the way Thomas Frank suggests everyone should in What's the Matter With Kansas.." People often don't vote how Thomas or Matt thinks they "should". Contra Matt, immigration is the number one issue on Spanish language radio by far. I think it helps McCain somewhat that he's not Tom Tancredo, but he's still the leader of the Tancredo party and that hurts him quite a bit.

...adding, the Hispanic electorate is larger than the listeners to Spanish radio, but the listenership is a non-trivial substet of Hispanic voters.

Both Obama and McCain should understand the dire financial consequences, of leaving the AMNESTY door wide open. Instead of appeasing the pro-illegal immigration entities, along with the big business cartels, the church, and the special interest lobby, may be they should take it under advisement who pays for the low wage illegal foreign nationals, when they need medical care. Who has been forced by misinterpretation of our laws by liberal judges, that we must educate the children of illegal aliens. Who pays for the welfare, the prisons and hundreds of hidden underground programs that citizens and legal residence are unaware of ...TAXPAYERS!
Some eye-opening, disturbing evidence that the national media won't tell you.
(www.mensnewsdaily.com/2008/05/15/striking-changes-in-arizona-as-illegal-immigrants-flee-the-state/#comment-62672 )
Read about costs the US government keeps under wraps.
This doesn't include education, free health care or prison services and much more not listed. Find that disturbing report here (www.eagleforum.org/sources).
Read about one committees free health care research. (www.townhall.com/columnists/AmandaCarpenter/2008/06/12/viral_video_on_immigration_costs )
Then go here to fight back: We must demand the Federal SAVE ACT (H.R.4088) that Democrats refuse to give us. NUMBERSUSA for unsuppressed facts!

Living in Southern California and being married to a Mexican my perception is that the Republicans are losing voters across all class lines.

Even middle and upper class Mexican Americans, who may have tended to vote Republican in the past, have left the party. Those voters may not care about immigration in the same way as lower class voters - however they do not appreciate the anti-Mexican rhetoric.

Like Irish, Italian and all other immigrant groups before them Mexicans have strong ties to their cultural background. When that culture is reduced to "scary brown people" they are rightly offended.

The Repubs have yielded to the fairly strong nativist part of their coalition and presented a pretty problem to their candidate whomever that had turned out to be. He can adopt Hispanic-friendly policies and work hard to get their votes and anger a big piece of the repub base. Or he can stay with their base and kiss Hispanics good bye.

If you're planning on getting the votes of only caucasians you're definitely not planning to be a winner very far into the future.

Would point out that the tag 'Hispanics' includes many different communities. Here in FL the Cubans do not mix with the Mexicans. In DC the central Americans have their own neighborhoods. Puerto Ricans have their own issues. Because they come to the U.S. as legal citizens immigration is not one.

I'm from Texas (majority-minority) and live in L.A., and I have to say I do think the immigration debate made a big difference. There was a palapable shift, you could feel it. A lot of people were really surprised and betrayed by the hate being spewed. There was a big reaction from the Latin Catholic community, which I would think probably leaned more conservative but was incredibly angered by what happened.


The world is going multi-polar, that means that we can no longer guarantee global peace and prosperity. If we lose Iraq, the US$ as the dominant reserve currency is toast and with that, our standard of living. China, Russia and Europe have their own geo-political interests which do not need align with ours.

From a US geo-political perspective LatAm has 4 times the natural resources of the US at a time of high commodity prices and a weakening US$. The Christian Americas (from the Arctic to the Antarctic) economically united are invincible in the 21st century.

China's trade and influence with LatAm has gone from de-minimus 10 years ago to 40% of total US trade with the region. To make matters worse, we have a LatAm left that continues to grow and unite under an anti-America umbrella. We almost lost Mexico to the Left this past presential election (less than 1% of the vote). Colombia, our best ally in the Andean region, sorrounded by Chavez and Correa is fighting terrorist drug cartels (funded by US demand ). The House Democrats failure to support a much needed Free Trade Agreement with Colombia is not in the US's security interest.

Now we can react to this new emerging world like Buchanan and become a second tier power within a generation or we can begin writing the next 63 years of American global peace and prosperity. Anglo-Hispanic economic integration will only accelerate. Spanish and Mandarian should be encouraged as a second language from Kindergarten.

One either writes one's future and that of one's descendants (e.g., Visigoth-Celtic Iberians, Anglo Saxons) or someone else will.

May God Bless and Keep America.


The world is going multi-polar, that means that we can no longer guarantee global peace and prosperity. If we lose Iraq, the US$ as the dominant reserve currency is toast and with that, our standard of living. China, Russia and Europe have their own geo-political interests which do not need align with ours.

From a US geo-political perspective LatAm has 4 times the natural resources of the US at a time of high commodity prices and a weakening US$. The Christian Americas (from the Arctic to the Antarctic) economically united are invincible in the 21st century.

China's trade and influence with LatAm has gone from de-minimus 10 years ago to 40% of total US trade with the region. To make matters worse, we have a LatAm left that continues to grow and unite under an anti-America umbrella. We almost lost Mexico to the Left this past presential election (less than 1% of the vote). Colombia, our best ally in the Andean region, sorrounded by Chavez and Correa is fighting terrorist drug cartels (funded by US demand ). The House Democrats failure to support a much needed Free Trade Agreement with Colombia is not in the US's security interest.

Now we can react to this new emerging world like Buchanan and become a second tier power within a generation or we can begin writing the next 63 years of American global peace and prosperity. Anglo-Hispanic economic integration will only accelerate. Spanish and Mandarian should be encouraged as a second language from Kindergarten.

One either writes one's future and that of one's descendants (e.g., Visigoth-Celtic Iberians, Anglo Saxons) or someone else will.

May God Bless and Keep America.

What kafka said (above, and I guess in the books too).

Say, could MattY provide some examples of LouDobbs being a "RacistDemagogue"? Because, I have some pretty pungent examples from his side.

I generally love immigrants, but when people start talking about how their "chidren" need to be supported by citizens of their new country, that doesn't exactly elicit my sympathies. I think that illegal immigrants should gain citizenship, but it shouldn't happen with corresponding welcome handouts. Whenever liberals demand free health care or other goodies for immigrants, that only leads otherwise sympathetic people to rethink how excited they are about accepting illegal (or even legal immigrants). We already have enough people to take care of who already live here, nobody should come in and expect us to take care of them. And no, it has nothing to do with any particular immigrant group. And no, I don't think it's the same as supporting people who already live here. Most immigrants add to the economy, but those that do not work and want government welfare or free health care for their families do not belong here.
People like Becerra with his "increased funds for our children's health care" completely alienate me, and push me away from voting Democrat.

Matt says: "the press and politicians often overstate the significance of the immigration issue to Hispanic politics."

Right. Polls show that Hispanic American citizens (i.e., voters) tend to be sensibly ambivalent on the question of illegal immigration, since they are the least insulated from its harms. Overall, they tend to be old-fashioned tax-and-spend Democrats for straightforward reasons of economic self-interest.

On the other hand, immigration is very important to the small coterie of Hispanics whom politicians and journalists talk to the most: the Hispanic professional political class -- campaign advisers, political advertising men, Chicano studies professors, La Raza ethnic activists, and the like. Their careers are based on their claims to represent a vast number of people, and the vaster the number, the more money they make. So, much of what we hear about how crucial immigration is to the Hispanic vote is self-serving propaganda made up by this small coterie and broadcast by politicians and journalists to lazy and innumerate to look at the numbers.

I believe that Americans must understand that for about thirty years, despite laws to the contrary, we implicitly URGED illegal immigrants to come here. "Come on up, folks, and ignore those silly laws!" we said, wink, wink. "We're not paying any attention to those silly laws either!"

So we ended up after that time with about twelve million illegal immigrants living here. They came here because we told them to. They came here because business leaders wanted them here. And business leaders STILL want them here, and so does George Bush, and John McCain, and Barack Obama.

They came here because, like any self-respecting human being, they weighed the promise of being here against the cost of coming here and the risks involved in coming here, and the promise won out.

I am against illegal immigration, but I think these are truths that we simply have to recognize as part of the problem.

Any attempt to regain control of our borders that focuses solely on the illegal immigrants themselves does run the risk of alienating Hispanics. Some of that is due to the outrageous notion of Aztlan, and the notion that "we didn't cross the border, the border crossed us" and therefore that they somehow have a RIGHT to be here. Nuts to that! Every sovereign nation can control its borders in any way they see fit. Notice how brutal and harsh Mexico is along its southern border, before you criticize our own efforts.

To regain control of our southern border, we MUST focus our efforts equally on the CEOs and the business leaders who continue to try to attract illegal immigrants here. If we can manage to focus on our business leaders as well as on the illegals themselves, we will have a fair policy.

Criminal penalties for the business leaders are necessary. In addition, illegals who are caught must be fingerprinted and those records kept; and the illegals must be told: "This is a NEW policy, and you have placed yourself at risk of never being legally allowed into this country legally. NEVER. Is this a risk you want to run? Because if we catch you a second time, that's it for you. You will have lost all future opportunity to be allowed here legally. And if we catch you a third time, you will be imprisoned for a few years, and we have many, many large rocks needing busting up. You can help us with that. We cannot welcome you into our country when your very first act upon arriving is an illegal act."

But again, without an EQUALLY strong effort against the employers, business leaders, and CEOs that hire illegal aliens, any such effort along the border itself will be a failure and should be considered unfair scapegoating.

Matt Yglesias is OBVIOUSLY not a person of Mexican ethnicity!

My guess (not that I know or ever heard of this guy) is that he's Cuban!

Cubans get preferential treatment in US immigration. All they have to do is touch US soil and they immediately get US immigration documents!

As such; OF COURSE immigration would not be a huge issues for Cubans!

DUH!

On the other hand, in southwestern "Hispanic" communities (i.e. Mexican/Mexican-American), brown people are literally UNDER SIEGE by racist demagogues! BROWN ppl are now subject to detention by cops for merely bantering in Spanish!

The fact that Yglesias seems oblivious to this just shows that he does NOT speak for me! I doubt he has any clue what its like to be BROWN nowadays in the southwest! He probably has a WHITE appearance and just shuttles through the southwest on vacation...like to San Diego or Las Vegas...and because he looks WHITE...is treated like royalty!

BROWN skinned Mexicans/Mexican-Americans don't have that option Mr Yglesias!

I would bet Yglesias harbors enmity towards BROWN ppl (Mexican/Mexican-Americans) as many "Cuban-Americans"do! Because you see, most of the so called Cuban-Americans identify as white! "White Nationalism" is not uncommon among them either!

In short Matt Yglesias;

YOU DON'T SPEAK FOR ME! DON'T PRETEND YOU DO!

My parents are Mexican immigrants. They moved here in the 60s as legal residents and later bacame citizens. The message I received is that in no shape or form do we take welfare. It is a myth that Latinos believe in a welfare system. We come here with a solid work ethic and that we are self supporting through our own contribution. So Obama's vote for welfare is meaningless to me. I want policy that stimulates the economy and creates jobs. I'm in the six figure salary range and college educated. I didn't get here from US handouts.

The Cuban Adjustment Act gives them all sorts of goodies. As soon as a Cuban touches US soil, he is allowed to stay and will automatically be granted political asylum. That makes him automatically eligible for welfare and social security payments. It doesn't matter if he's never worked or paid into the American system. He's still allowed to draw from it. In addition he is also automatically eligible for government sponsored SBA loans.

Cubans also created the "Hispanic" category (Cuban Bebe Rebozo was Nixon's best friend) and market themselves to corporations as experts on "Hispanics." Corporations have bought into this nonsense, which is why corporations still don't know how to market anything to "Hispanics."

They set themselves up as minorities using other people's history of discrimination and use this to get SBA loans and Affirmative Action, yet they try to tell everybody that they’re white conservatives who oppose Affirmative Action and government "help." And to be accepted, they make sure to bash poor people who actually have to work and save to open a small business.

Cubans have received more government aid than any other immigrant group in US history.

Cuauhtemoc,

I don't think that Matthew Yglesias ever made a claim to speak for Latinos. I think that he's related to some Yglesias writers from NYC (playwrites and novelists, I believe), not Cuban, but probably Spanish and even at that, Spanish Jews. I'm pretty sure Matthew Yglesias of The Atlantic is not Cuban. So of course, he has no idea what it's like to be brown and oppressed in the Southwest. I didn't get the sense that he was trying to pass himself off as having endured that experience.

Maybe you are reading into his post something that I don't see. Matt Y. is correct in that most of the less affluent Latinos/Hispanics tend to vote Dem, while those who earn more money, go Republican.


Comments closed July 19, 2008.

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