Mocking Messiah

Here's another one for the "if a Democrat did it, the media would roast him alive" file. It seems the McCain campaign put together a joke site called Barack Book which is intended to mock Barack Obama and his supporters in a variety of ways. Since one of Obama's alleged political weaknesses is that unlike John McCain he's a charismatic, compelling speaker who people are excited about they chose to poke fun at him through the trope that, allegedly, his fans think he's the messiah. Specifically, Marc Ambinder explains the site "included a link to a real Facebook page, and next to an entry for 'employer,' the RNC wrote in 'Messiah Lutheran Church.'"

Messiah Lutheran Church, ha ha ha. Except this is the name of a real church, whose members are apparently mostly in Missouri but which has branches all across the country including this congregation in Florida whose photo I'm borrowing above.

Meanwhile, I'm not sure I even understand the McCain campaign's joke. They thought "Messiah Lutheran" was over-the-top and parodic, I guess? But it's not like the idea of a church dedicated to worshipping a messiah is wacky -- that's what they're doing in all the churches.

Comments

Hrm. Do I vote for the guy who asks God to make him an instrument of His Will or do I vote for the guy who has a number of tells that he holds religion in some degree of contempt?

Posted by Jaybird | July 30, 2008 1:00 PM

Bizarre. Of course, I thought the purple-heart band-aids and whispering campaigns about Kerry shooting himself or whatever were bizarre, too.

It's amazing how ... lame ... the modern GOP is. Aren't they supposed to be the "party of ideas" or something? All I see from them nowadays is negativism, resentment, and pathetic little stunts like this.

Posted by J | July 30, 2008 1:05 PM

what really bums me out about the B.S. "messiah" meme is that The Daily Show has started using it and it's just not funny because it isn't making fun of anything real - it's making fun of a person who doesn't exist, except in the minds of his opponents.

Posted by cleek | July 30, 2008 1:06 PM

It's like how McCain thinks it's a travesty to take money from people who are working to pay for retirees.

I have come to adopt the opinion that Obama is just letting McCain thrash around until October, at which point he'll either coast on his lead or rip McCain to tatters with ads about his mistakes, lies, and position changes over the past 5 months. Either way, pass the popcorn.

Posted by HAL | July 30, 2008 1:08 PM

The RNC and McCain campaign is taking a bizarre turn with this Obama is so popular and messianic and that's BAD NEWS FOR OBAMA!!! McCain's new ad looks to be aimed at the high school nerd demographic, like a kid who silently fulminates about the popular kids. (Or is that the Dylan Klebold demographic?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHXYsw_ZDXg

Posted by Ed | July 30, 2008 1:09 PM

I wonder if John and Cindy go to the Church of the Homewrecking Whore.

Posted by MoeLarryAndJesus | July 30, 2008 1:18 PM

Silly Matt, didn't you read the disclaimer at the bottom?
Paid for by the Republican National Committee.
Not Authorized By Any Candidate Or Candidate's Committee.
How could you even suggest that the RNC and the McCain campaign might have something to do with each other?

Posted by SP | July 30, 2008 1:26 PM

A few years ago, George Will wrote an entire column on how you could tell the pro-choice movement was irrational and stupid, because it was like a religion.

Free pass.
.

Posted by Grand Moff Texan | July 30, 2008 1:27 PM

As I've said elsewhere, I don't get the parody of this or of the hasselhof ad. Whoever he's hired has an obscure sense of humor that I just don't see too many people getting.

Posted by cnnr | July 30, 2008 1:28 PM

I was going to say what Ed just said. Constantly emphasizing your opponent's enormous popularity seems like an odd campaign tactic.

Posted by Ben | July 30, 2008 1:30 PM

"Except this is the name of a real church, whose members are apparently mostly in Missouri but which has branches all across the country"

Which shows how out of touch the McBot fundies are - there are probably a hundred Lutheran churches called "Messiah", none of which are "branches".
Unlike the corporate megachurches, most mainline Protestant churches are named for saints - so you will find dozens of St. Peter's, Paul's, James, etc in any major metro area.

Posted by CParis | July 30, 2008 1:31 PM

I'll just point out, because both you and Ambinder are being a little unclear about this, that the churches called "Messiah Lutheran Church" do not form some sort of independent organization.

There is a denomination called "Lutheran Church Missouri Synod", aka "LCMS", which is one of the Lutheran denominations in the U.S. The name "Messiah Lutheran Church" is a popular one in the LCMS, but the churches in question don't have anything in common beyond being members of the same denomination and sharing a name. There are plenty of LCMS churches with different names. And, indeed, there are churches in other Lutheran denominations that use "Messiah" in their names.

Talking about "Messianic Lutherans", as Ambinder does, would be like saying all Catholic churches named "St. Mark" are "Markian Catholic" churches.

FYI, the three largest Lutheran denominations in the U.S. are, in order of decreasing size, the "Evangelical Lutheran Church in America", the aforementioned LCMS, and the "Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Church".

Posted by Dave in California | July 30, 2008 1:34 PM

Grand Moff Texan,

Don't forget the whole "Global Warming is just a religion that Al Gore is the pope of!" shpiel. Yeah, because Global Warming is all a bunch of nonsensical hooey -- just like religion!

Posted by Apsaras | July 30, 2008 1:36 PM

But it's not like the idea of a church dedicated to worshipping a messiah is wacky -- that's what they're doing in all the churches.

And *that's* pretty wacky.

Posted by McKingford | July 30, 2008 1:38 PM

But it's not like the idea of a church dedicated to worshipping a messiah is wacky -- that's what they're doing in all the churches.

And *that's* pretty wacky.

Posted by McKingford | July 30, 2008 1:39 PM

First they steal recipes and credit them to Cindy McCain. Now they steal the name of a church.

I could get better fact checking from a 15-year old. Of course, what do you expect from a candidate who is computer illiterate.

Posted by LFC | July 30, 2008 2:01 PM

Sorry to break it to you, but Ambinder completely screwed the pooch on that one. It might be more embarassing for the RNC if mainstream reporters or those on the Left like yourself actually knew a thing about religion.

Posted by SlappyMcJackass | July 30, 2008 2:05 PM

Dave in California may be right that the name "Messiah" is particularly popular among Missouri Synod congregations, but the one Matt links to says it's ELCA.

(The Missouri Synod are the fundies. The Wisconsisn Synod, I believe, are the fundies for whom the Missouri Synod is not fundie enough. When I was growing up Lutheran there were at least a dozen different "synods" -- but apparently all the reasonable people have agglomerated into one. The original divisions were among national lines because the Swedes, Germans, Danes etc. were all worshiping in their native languages.)

Posted by roac | July 30, 2008 2:13 PM

Hate to agree with the Jackass above, and certainly hate to agree with GetReligion on anything, but yes, this was sloppy work on Ambinder's part. I know denominational ties must seem obscure and irrelevant, but it's the equivalent of misspelling somebody's name. At best it's embarrassing, at worst it can cause real trouble.

Anyway, the United Church of Christ and Lutherans are sometimes confused. Could be that the anonymous McCain supporter is the biggest idiot of all and misidentified Obama's (former) denomination.

Posted by pastordan | July 30, 2008 2:15 PM

Sorry, didn't mean to imply Matt or Marc were idiots. Mistaken, yes. Idiots, no.

Posted by pastordan | July 30, 2008 2:26 PM

Messiah Lutheran Church, ha ha ha. Except this is the name of a real church, whose members are apparently mostly in Missouri but which has branches all across the country including this congregation in Florida whose photo I'm borrowing above.

Ambinder is confused and you have just uncritically regurgitated his confusion. "Messiah Lutheran Church," and variations on that phrase, is the name various individual congregations of Lutherans have given themselves. It's not a denomination. There are no "branches." The Florida congregation you link to is not a congregation within the "church" "Messiah Lutheran Church." It's a congregation called "Messiah Lutheran Church" within the denomination ELCA.

Posted by Mixner | July 30, 2008 2:27 PM

Sorry, didn't mean to imply Matt or Marc were idiots. Mistaken, yes. Idiots, no.

Posted by pastordan | July 30, 2008 2:32 PM

And just to confound the embarrassment of limited cultural knowledge, Iparis gets LUTHERANS confused with CATHOLICS.

Catholic churches tend to be named after saints. While a few Lutheran churches might be named after some European national hero who was sainted, the Lutheran movement specifically rejected the concept of sainthood back during the Reformation.

Lutheran churches tend to have simple names with biblical reference: Our Savior's Lutheran, Redeemer Lutheran, Shiloh Lutheran, Trinity, Zion, etc.

Posted by Berken | July 30, 2008 2:41 PM

As noted, LCMS is a really right-wing synod; when I was cleaning out the office at the LCMS mission church in our urban neighborhood, I found a number of back issues of the LCMS internal newsletter. I was taken aback by the sheer number of not just pro-Iraq War, but *pro-war* (and anti-Democratic) editorials and articles in it. Ironically, we had just completed a discussion series where we examined the role of the military in Roman society during the Patristic era, and contrasted it with the famous "armor of God" passage in Ephesians 6.

Then again, I'm one of those Godless Episcopalians, so maybe I was just in the wrong place overall. No surprise that most of the members of that church have left for other denominations entirely.

Posted by tWB | July 30, 2008 2:42 PM

So it's not just a pretty obvious dog-whistle tag tying Obama to other crazy black preacher/lifelong republican (honest) who racists don't like, Martin Luther King?

I.e. Obama's the Crazy Black Messiah who MLK paved the way for! Lock up your daughters and vote for the Old White Dude before it's too late!!!

Posted by Tony J | July 30, 2008 2:48 PM

"And just to confound the embarrassment of limited cultural knowledge, Iparis gets LUTHERANS confused with CATHOLICS."

Berken - I noted that mainline PROTESTANT churches, not necessarily just Lutheran are often named after saints.
And as I look through the list of local Lutheran churches in my area, I see 3 St. Pauls, 1 St. Marks, 1 St. James.

Posted by CParis | July 30, 2008 3:07 PM

As a member of a Missouri Synod congregation, I have to laugh at some of the information flowing about. The national church body rarely takes a position on any political issue -- particularly if it doesn't involve sanctity of human life issues. Members tend to be middle-of-the road, conservative or libertarian (like myself) rather than liberal but we have a belief called Two Kingdoms that means we think (in gross shorthand here) that the church should focus on eternal life and the government should focus on temporal life. So we don't take political positions in the same way that most mainline or evangelical church bodies might.

It is very common for LCMS churches to be named after saints. There is a difference between the Lutheran Reformation and the subsequent Protestant Reformation, after all. In the DC area, LCMS churches are named everything from St. John's to St. Athanasius.

And as a former member of the LCMS Board for Communications, I'm pretty sure we don't have an "internal newsletter," much less one that is gunning for the Iraq War or any war in general. We do have a newspaper but it is really boring and bureaucratic and press-releasey. It deals with what the various boards in the church are working on. And we have a magazine that comes out monthly that does not really get into politics much.

In fact, LCMS Lutherans were probably much less in favor of the Iraq War than the general population. Again, though, we think the church should focus on saving souls and growing the faith of members rather than "saving America" that more temporally-minded churches on the left and right are concerned with.

It's also worth saying that each LCMS congregation varies somewhat so YMMV.

Posted by Mollie | July 30, 2008 3:20 PM

Is Ambinder Jewish?

Within Judaism there is always a semi-joke that the name of a congregation actually does mean something: a congregation that formed from a contentious group splintering off from another congregation will ironically be called "Beth Shalom" (House of Peace). A Conservative/Orthodox Jewish congregation in a town which previously only had a Reform congregation might call itself "Shomrei Torah" (Guardians of the Torah), as does the congregation to which I belong.

You can, sometimes, speak of "Temple Emanuel" Reform Jews or "Beth Shalom" Conservative Jews as almost sub-denominations because the "brand" can very well mean something (kind of like how in Middlesex County, NJ when I lived there, they had the Column A vs. Column B Democrats). Perhaps there is some confusion that there are similar, informal naming conventions in other religious groupings?

Posted by DAS | July 30, 2008 3:24 PM

Perhaps there is some confusion that there are similar, informal naming conventions in other religious groupings?

Well, there are movie naming conventions: variations on "Mary Queen of Perpetual Suffering" for Catholic churches.

Posted by Jeffrey Davis | July 30, 2008 3:42 PM

And just to confound the embarrassment of limited cultural knowledge, Iparis gets LUTHERANS confused with CATHOLICS.

A Lutheran friend of mine bristled when I lumped Lutherans under Protestant. He insisted that Lutherans were Catholic. They just disregarded the Pope. They had ecclesiastical succession. Believed in the actual presence of Christ in Communion. Believed in the Nicene Creed. Sacraments. Etc.

Posted by Jeffrey Davis | July 30, 2008 3:46 PM

Jeffrey Davis,

True, while Lutherans are the "original Protestants" (and England was profoundly anti-Catholic), it is actually sensible to consider, pace the Catholic Church's branding them as heretical, both Lutherans and the Anglican Communion as schismatics. In a way, they are Northern European versions of the Eastern Orthodox Churches.

Or as some Lutherans refer to themselves -- "Catholic Lite: half the rituals, all of the guilt" -- or as some Episcopalians refer to themselves "Catholic Lite: all of the rituals, none of the guilt". ;)

Posted by DAS | July 30, 2008 3:54 PM

@Mollie -- Found the article. It was by Uwe Siemon-Netto, of Concordia Seminary, from October 2006. Siemon-Netto writes quite a bit for the Reporter, generally bringing a right-wing sensibility -- pro-GOP, anti-media -- to his articles.

In the article, Siemon-Netto argues that "The lives of millions of people and the survival of a democratic society, indeed perhaps of the United States as a free and unified nation, are at stake" in the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Israel's then-extant actions in Lebanon. He lauds "the ability of Americans to suffer protracted conflicts without chickening out when the going gets tough or the headlines become too repetitious" and, evoking Saigon, warns that "[t]he blood of ... millions is not merely on the hands of their executioners and torturers. It is also on the hands of those who abandoned them [in Vietnam], and that includes American voters."

He then defends Israel's actions in Lebanon by arguing that, "by accepting Hezbollah's money [Lebanese] civilians ceased to be non-combatants," decries the "the spectacle of U.S. Democrats turning against Sen. Joseph L. Lieberman because he had stood by his President in the war on terror" and ends by stating that "if Washington ultimately pulls tail and allows Iraq to fall into the hands of Islamist Iran, an evil power that will soon possess nuclear weapons, this might spell the end of the wonderful America so many of us love. ... As a result, America would cease to exist as a moral world power, a nation with a calling. And one shudders to think what this would mean for this country's internal peace, well-being, and ultimately its survival as One Nation Under God."

Pretty harsh stuff. Online copy here.

What I didn't realize is that the letters section in the next issue was full of LCMS pastors and congregants who attacked Siemon-Netto's article. As one pastor put it, "Having read this commentary, I was left with the impression that following the way of Jesus would be called 'chickening out' by the author." Amen.

I'll never be fully comfortable with the LCMS and its retrograde policies, including ordination of women and restriction of communion, as well as on more politically-charged issues. But it's also obvious that I took my own experiences with senior LCMS leadership and mistakenly lumped the people of the synod in with them. Considering the virulent political divisions plaguing my own denomination, you'd think I'd know better.

Posted by tWB | July 30, 2008 4:47 PM

Next thing you know, the press will mix up Shia and Sunni Muslims...

Posted by bob oso | July 30, 2008 4:56 PM

Jeffrey Davis,

Your friend is wrong and needs to head back to confirmation class.

For a start, he is apparently confusing small "c" catholic from the Nicene Creed (which simply means "universal") with big "C" Catholic (which is another thing altogether). The fact that both Lutherans and Catholics use the Nicene Creed doesn't mean anything. Almost all Protestant denominations have adopted it, along with many Orthodox denominations.

Lutherans don't believe in the direct ecclesiastical succession from St. Peter down to every pope and/or bishop who ever was, Lutherans don't believe that the wine and bread of communion are trans-substantiated into the actual body and blood of Jesus, and Lutherans have only two sacraments -- baptism and communion -- rather than the seven or more of the Catholics.

In addition to differing with the Catholics on a vast number of doctrines from Mary having been conceived "immaculately" to the need for any intercessor (priest or Saint) between any person and God, Lutherans also disagree quite fundamentally with Catholics about the mechanism for salvation.

Posted by KRK | July 30, 2008 5:16 PM

tWB,

Thanks for the link! Although I'm totally surprised that ran in the Reporter, it was a commentary piece rather than an official position paper. And, as you note, not received without criticism.

Also, Uwe is a critic of the media but also a life-long journalist and foreign correspondent in his own right.

There really are some interesting divisions in the LCMS, including the current leadership that seems to want to become like generic American Protestants of the evangelical stripe. Sigh.

Posted by Mollie | July 30, 2008 5:37 PM

KRK,

As an Anglican it was my impression though that Lutherans (and Anglicans too) do believe in "consubstantiation." The consecrated bread is simultaneously bread and the body of Christ, and the wine is simultaneously blood and wine. They certainly don't believe that the Eucharist is simply a symbolic or memorialistic act, in contradistinction to most Protestants. Maybe one of the Lutherans here can correct me.

Posted by Hector | July 30, 2008 5:48 PM

I like the Onion parody church, Holy Christ Almighty Lutheran Church.

Posted by Gus | July 30, 2008 5:59 PM

I like the Onion parody church, Holy Christ Almighty Lutheran Church.

Posted by Gus | July 30, 2008 6:00 PM

All this talk of "Catholics believe that..." and "Lutherans believe that..." is very misleading. It would be more correct to say "The Catholic Church teaches that..." or "Lutherans have traditionally held that..." Denominational or church affiliation seems to be a very poor predictor of actual religious beliefs. Religion in America today is more like a set of social groups defined mostly by accidents of birth or broad sociopolitical values than communities of people defined by a shared set of religious beliefs. I wonder how many people who identify themselves as Episcopalians, for example, could even tell you what "consubstantiation" means.

Posted by Mixner | July 30, 2008 6:04 PM

Hector,

The degree to which consubstantiation accurately describes the Lutheran view of communion is a matter of some debate, and probably differs among the different types of Lutherans. Regardless, Lutherans definitely don't follow the Catholic doctrine of trans-substantiation.

Posted by KRK | July 30, 2008 6:09 PM

Lutheran doctrine on Holy Communion is called "Real Presence." We believe we actually receive the body and blood of Christ in, with and under the bread and wine.

Posted by Mollie | July 30, 2008 6:46 PM

What exactly is the (range of) belief(s) of Lutherans regarding Apostolic Succession? I thought that Lutheran ministers/bishops did indeed claim Apostolic Succession ... they just didn't accept that one Bishop (the Pope) was better than any others. And also, no matter how much the pastor dresses like a Catholic priest, you are to call him/her a "minister" rather than a priest, because the priesthood consists of all believers.

I'm not a Lutheran (another meaning of IANL?) so YMMV, but I do have many Lutheran relatives and had a Lutheran roomate in college ...

Posted by DAS | July 30, 2008 7:03 PM

Pardon me for doing this, but I can no longer resist ... I tried to be good ... but the flesh is weak:

"He's not the messiah; he's a very naughty boy"

Posted by DAS | July 30, 2008 7:07 PM

You missed the best part of the story.

Wonkette picked it up, and tons of us stormed their systems. The topics and discussion board turned into the snarkiest place I've ever seen in my life.

Within an hour, we shut down the whole place.

Last time McCain or the GOP fucks with the "wired-left".

Posted by Volumptuous | July 30, 2008 8:08 PM

Lutherans also disagree quite fundamentally with Catholics about the mechanism for salvation.

Back in the late middle years of John Paul II there was a joint Catholic/Lutheran document affirming Salvation through Faith.

Posted by Jeffrey Davis | July 30, 2008 9:39 PM

If I am not mistaken, this is more the doing of the Republican National Committee than John McCain's campaign.

However, poking fun at religion (even if for the alleged sake of parody) seems counterintuitive to GOP ideals.

Posted by Evan Schmitt | July 30, 2008 10:12 PM

If I am not mistaken, this is more the doing of the Republican National Committee than John McCain's campaign.

However, poking fun at religion (even if for the alleged sake of parody) seems counterintuitive to GOP ideals.

Posted by Evan Schmitt | July 30, 2008 10:12 PM

If I am not mistaken, this is more the doing of the Republican National Committee than John McCain's campaign.

However, poking fun at religion (even if for the alleged sake of parody) seems counterintuitive to GOP ideals.

Posted by Evan Schmitt | July 30, 2008 10:13 PM

McCain's new ad looks to be aimed at the high school nerd demographic, like a kid who silently fulminates about the popular kids.

If you read Perlstein's Nixonland you won't find this odd at all. Nixon got elected a couple times doing this.

Posted by Ed Marshall | July 30, 2008 10:20 PM

Okay, with apologies to Iparis, here is a list of Lutheran churches in northern Illinois, which is a good sampling.

http://lcc.lutheranchurchcharities.org/app/w_page.php?id=208&type=section

Looks like they make an exception in using the title "saint" when referring to the 12 apostles. Well, they didn't have any of those back in my childhood stomping grounds.

As I noted, most of the names are simple references to scripture: Trinity, Nazereth, etc.

For the rest of it, among those still checking in, the essence of Luther's quarrel with the church was his belief that salvation came from individual faith and the grace of God, and no priest could claim to be the intermediary between a Christian and his savior. Neither the papacy nor the priesthood could possibly have the power to forgive sins by their intercession (or by selling it as an indulgence) or to send a Christian to Hell by refusing him the sacraments.

Authority in Lutheran churches rises from the congregations, as they interpret scripture, not from any hierarchy of bishops or similar.

Everything else is detail.

Posted by Berken | July 31, 2008 7:38 PM