The Birth Certificate Follies

One odd subplot of the campaign that I've caught occasional glimpses of in comments here are anti-Obama conspiracy theorists raising questions about why the original copy of his birth cerificate isn't available. The idea, it seems, is that Obama was secretly born outside the United States and his parents said to themselves, back in 1961, "this interracial kid will probably be president some day so we'd better cover up his place of birth and pretend it happened in Hawaii so he'll be eligible even though he'd actually be eligible anyway." Something like that.

At any rate, Dave Weigel's been tracking the conspiracies better than anyone and has the latest as the anti-Obama truth squad inadvertently uncovers evidence that they're wrong and still manage to process it into their theory.

Comments

I would agree that the newspaper anouncement certainly provides support for Senator Obamas' Hawaiian birth. However, production of a certified copy of his birth certificate would bury this controversy once and for all. Why does the senator not produce it?

As for the hypothesis that the birth certificate might say that his parents weren't married, who the fuck cares about that. That would have no relevance as to his eligibility for the POTUS.

Posted by SLC | July 23, 2008 2:32 PM

I think my baby boy is the greatest, but I'm not sure if I would go to all that work to make sure he's president.

Of course, McCain was actually born outside the U.S.

Posted by am | July 23, 2008 2:33 PM

back in 1961

As Northwestern law professor Steven Calabresi points out, even if Obama was born in the US to American parents in 1961, under the Constitution, he is too young to be eligible to be President.

Posted by Al | July 23, 2008 2:33 PM

Too bad the Chicago Tribune isn't smart enough to put "satire" tags on posts like that.

As usual, Sadly, No! is on the case.

Posted by dbt | July 23, 2008 2:37 PM

Keep hitting this hard, wingers. Keep hitting it so hard you completely neglect to come up with anything voters might actually care about.

Posted by Chris O. | July 23, 2008 2:41 PM

Thank you, Al, for linking to what is possibly the worst argument the internet has ever produced.

This is my favorite part:

A lot of this was because of infant mortality

"A lot of this was because of"? Really?

Some how I'm guessing he, unlike Obama, didn't edit his law review.

(FWIW, the "this" refers to life expectancy, which IIRC cannot be divided into constituent parts.

Posted by scythia | July 23, 2008 2:44 PM

However, production of a certified copy of his birth certificate would bury this controversy once and for all. Why does the senator not produce it?

Yes, that's right. These reasonable people will go away, just as soon as the Obama campaign provides sufficent facts.

You could invite everyone of the nutters to a private showing of Obama's birth certificate at the Hawaii State House, and they would still yell "forgery!"

Posted by Jeff L | July 23, 2008 2:44 PM

The idea, it seems, is that Obama was secretly born outside the United States and his parents said to themselves, back in 1961, "this interracial kid will probably be president some day so we'd better cover up his place of birth and pretend it happened in Hawaii so he'll be eligible even though he'd actually be eligible anyway."

I don't understand this - why would he "actually be eligible anyway"? If he was born outside the US, with only one parent being a citizen, would he not uncontroversially be ineligible?

Posted by jeebus | July 23, 2008 2:51 PM

SLC: maybe I'm crazy, but I'd bet that if some imposter was attempting to gain the presidency of the United States--and provided documents so dubious that random people of no relevent expertise could disprove them--the FBI and CIA would likely be on the case.

Posted by mark f | July 23, 2008 2:54 PM

I should add that I do not in any way shape or form wish to imply by my previous comment that any of this nonsense is in the least bit credible. I'm just saying.

Posted by jeebus | July 23, 2008 2:55 PM

c'mon -- a case of Classic Republican Projection:

John McCain was not-so-secretly born in Panama, so... Hey! Look! Obama's original Birth Certificate is missing!

Posted by DukeJ | July 23, 2008 2:57 PM

Smacks of "Rathergate".

Posted by danceswithgoats | July 23, 2008 2:58 PM

Re am

In actuality, Senator McCain was born in the Canal Zone which was considered for purposes of eligibility for the POTUS, a part of the United States at that time, making Senator McCain eligible.

Posted by SLC | July 23, 2008 2:58 PM

I personally like how one commenter speculated that the Obama campaign invented this kerfluffle and forged a birth certificate in order to waste all of their time.

Posted by Tyro | July 23, 2008 3:02 PM

Jeebus:

That would depend on the law at the time of his birth. Since 1986 most people born abroad to one American parent are considered citizens, but before then the laws varied. I'm not sure what they were in 1961.

Posted by mark f | July 23, 2008 3:04 PM

I have not seen any of the actual, original documents proving where McCain was born, so until the McCain campaign personally hands me a copy of McCain's birth certificate and a signed statement from 4 high level military officers testifying under pain of death that they were present when and where McCain was born, I have no choice but to assume McCain was born elsewhere.

It would be very simple for the McCain campaign to clear this up, although it may be a problem that after thousands of years, many paper documents corrode for environmental reasons. Perhaps the documents lie at the back of a cave in an earthen pot in some desert somewhere.

Posted by El Cid | July 23, 2008 3:06 PM

I don't think they're trying to prove that he was born outside of the US; I think they're trying to show that his birth name was actually "Barry" (and that he changed it to Barack later to be cool, or out of contempt for normal American sounding names, or because he's really a Muslim) and/or that his birth religion was "Muslim." I do not know whether original HI birth certificates from 1961 included such information as the baby's religion, but the nutcases chasing this birth certificate thing are projecting all sorts of game-changing disclosures onto the mythical real birth certificate, which I suspect Obama (like myself and other people I know) just lost in the course of his life.

Posted by Steve V | July 23, 2008 3:11 PM

Just to push Jeebus's line of thinking because I find it interesting (in the abstract, not pertaining to Obama), some of the rules even as they apply today could make it difficult to prove, 40-something years after birth, whether or not citizenship was granted completely legitimately. The American parent had to have lived in the US for at least 5 years before the birth with at least 2 of those years being after the parent's 14th birthday. The parent then would have had to register a record of the birth with a US consulate or embassy.

I suppose there are probably cases where people have been behaving as citizens and considered to be so even though technically they may not be. If such a person were to run for president and discover this (or have it discovered), my guess is that the courts would eventually consider it a minor clerical error on the embassy's part and rule in favor of the candidate, providing that the candidate or his parents did not knowingly defraud anyone along the way.

Posted by mark f | July 23, 2008 3:17 PM

I don't understand this - why would he "actually be eligible anyway"? If he was born outside the US, with only one parent being a citizen, would he not uncontroversially be ineligible?

You're absolute correct. Per the Wiki page:

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthright_citizenship_in_the_United_States_of_America

There is an asymmetry in the way children born overseas to unmarried parents, only one of whom is a U.S. citizen, are treated. Children born to American mothers are automatically considered natural-born citizens. But children born to American fathers unmarried to the children's non-American mothers are not considered natural-born citizens (or citizens at all) unless the father takes several actions

His mother was an American citizen. He was born to his mother. He is an American citizen. It doesn't matter whether he was born in Hawaii, Kansas, the Sudan, or Mars. It's a testimony to the maturation of the batshit insane conspiratorial mind that has run through this nation's history that it can so easily ignore that. And, in addition, to the subconscious helplessness these maroons feel when confronted with the thought of John McCain vs. Barrack Obama. They know on a subconscious level that they're gonna lose; their only recourse is to try and get Obama out of the race. And, of course, there is the Obama=Other thing going too. A perfect storm of idiocy.

Posted by Josh R. | July 23, 2008 3:25 PM

I'm amazed that the wingnut right hasn't tumbled to the real story here: Obama is actually McCain's black love-child, the one that George W Bush was talking about in the 2000 South Carolina primary. Pass it on.

Posted by converger | July 23, 2008 3:29 PM

I'm amazed that the wingnut right hasn't tumbled to the real story here: Obama is actually McCain's black love-child, the one that George W Bush was talking about in the 2000 South Carolina primary. Pass it on.

Posted by converger | July 23, 2008 3:31 PM

I'm amazed that the wingnut right hasn't tumbled to the real story here: Obama is actually McCain's black love-child, the one that George W Bush was talking about in the 2000 South Carolina primary.

Posted by converger | July 23, 2008 3:32 PM

I'm amazed that the wingnut right hasn't tumbled to the real story here: Obama is actually McCain's black love-child, the one that George W Bush was talking about in the 2000 South Carolina primary.

Posted by converger | July 23, 2008 3:33 PM

Re McCain, the issue isn't whether or not he's a "citizen," it's whether he's a "natural born citizen," the term that is used in the constitution to qualify one to serve as President. The definition of that term is almost certainly a matter of judicial construction, although it's possible that Congress also "interpreted" that phrase by passing legislation dealing with the status of people born in the various US territories. According to that odd little article the NY Times published a few weeks ago, people born in the Canal Zone were made "natural born citizens" pursuant to legislation that was passed a couple of years AFTER McCain was born. The implication being that at the time of his birth he necessarily was not "natural born" (if CZ babies were considered "natural born" the subsequent legislation wouldn't have been necessary). Of course no one doubts McCain's American citizenship. It's purely a question of the constitutional qualification for President. It's my understanding that whatever the argument of the fellow that wrote that NY Times article, the question is pretty thorny and complicated. And since the only way I can see a court actually examining it would be for Obama to file suit to disqualify him, it's an academic discussion.

Posted by Steve V | July 23, 2008 3:35 PM

oops. There seems to be a stutter in the posting script. Sorry for the multiple posts.

Posted by converger | July 23, 2008 3:36 PM

From the link:

Have you noticed that there are no photos of Obama as an infant?

I have no idea what that's supposed to even mean. He's a clone? An android? What?

Posted by EarBucket | July 23, 2008 3:48 PM

From that website:

TexasDarling: "Jackson, I’m not sure that any info on the COLB is fake, but perhaps the document was set up to appear to be fake, so that we would spend hundreds of hours studying it..."

This may be the greatest thing i have read on the Internet.

Posted by raft | July 23, 2008 3:53 PM

In actuality, Senator McCain was born in the Canal Zone which was considered for purposes of eligibility for the POTUS, a part of the United States at that time, making Senator McCain eligible.

Actually, as I'm sure you're aware, this wasn't the case until congress passed a law retroactively making it the case. There's a strong constitutional argument that McCain isn't actually eligible to be POTUS, and you know it.

Posted by justinb | July 23, 2008 3:55 PM

Still, unless someone presents me personally with the actual printed copy of the bill signed by the U.S. President on this Canal Zone citizenship law, I refuse to believe it is real, and all anyone refers me to are copies.

Posted by El Cid | July 23, 2008 4:04 PM

The comments on that Reason post are gold.

Posted by Persia | July 23, 2008 4:23 PM

I'm amazed that the wingnut right hasn't tumbled to the real story here: Obama is actually McCain's black love-child, the one that George W Bush was talking about in the 2000 South Carolina primary.

I've tried to start this rumor several times and have been disappointed that it hasn't caught on.

Posted by Just Dropping By | July 23, 2008 4:25 PM

I love the idea of there being no infant pictures of Obama vexing someone. I love the way it gets deep into their psyches and won't let them rest, like one of the punishments out of The Inferno.

Posted by Jeffrey Davis | July 23, 2008 4:31 PM

SLC asked... However, production of a certified copy of his birth certificate would bury this controversy once and for all. Why does the senator not produce it?

Simple. While this is just one stupid request, if Obama gives it even a hint of credence by replying with a document, the right-wingnutosphere will explode into a s***-storm of ever sillier demands. They will use the classic "but he produced his birth certificate, so why not a photograph and DNA sample that prove he's not a hermaphrodite". They will scream and cry for an ever more ridiculous pile of "evidence" to "clear his name" of a litany of crack-headed accusations.

And if you don't believe it, all you have to do is look at the list of lies McCain has been spewing out lately. If that's the mode of the official campaign, what do you think the fringe element will come up with?

After all, these are the same people who said in 2000 that McCain was mentally unstable from being a POW. (To give them their due, I have to admit that I'm starting to come around to their side a bit on that one.)

Posted by LFC | July 23, 2008 4:49 PM

Yeah, why don't more famous people and public figures provide random nutcases with original documents establishing their identities? It's not like anyone would ever think of doing anything irresponsible with that information!

Why is Obama afraid of giving right wing bloggers his checkbook and his original Social Security card?

Posted by El Cid | July 23, 2008 5:02 PM

Children born to American mothers are automatically considered natural-born citizens.

Well, if WIkipedia says so...

Look, there have been forty-two different presidents of the United States. Of those born after the US Constitution came into effect, none were born outside the US. There's no way of knowing whether Article II's 'natural-born' is satisfied by jus sanguinis citizens, nor if it's even possible get standing for a challenge. If the SCOTUS were authorized to give advisory opinions in the manner of other countries' constitutional courts, this would be a good opinion to have.

The Silly LikudniCan is, of course, an idiot. It's not as if the fabled 1961 birth certificate he seeks would prove anything to those disposed to believe the conspiracy bullshit, given that original birth certificates are almost always the weakest link in the nexus of identity documents. That's why voter ID laws are fundamentally flawed, since you can't go back in time and create tamper-free birth certificates, or supply them where they don't exist, as is often the case with older black Americans from the segregated south.

This is all just a shitheap of dumbfuck projection. If you start with the assumption that identity documentation is suspect, then it's possible to 'raise questions' about anyone you want.

And it's not as if SLC has proved he could marry in Israel.

Posted by pseudonymous in nc | July 23, 2008 5:49 PM

I love the idea of there being no infant pictures of Obama vexing someone. I love the way it gets deep into their psyches and won't let them rest, like one of the punishments out of The Inferno. - Jeffrey Davis

Did someone say 'vex'? I do wish the righty-tighties would clear their minds of cant.

Posted by DAS | July 23, 2008 6:55 PM

A lot of the folks finding some measure of hope in this birth certificate affair are what sports fans call frontrunners. They automatically (and retroactively) become lifetime fans of the team that wins. Now that the Republicans look like they're going to lose badly they search for miracles. Watch for Pam Atlas to start consulting the entrails of chickens and consulting soothsayers.
It's likely that after the election a lot of right wing bloggers and their fans will move into religion and try to ignore day-to-day politics.

Posted by dSmith | July 23, 2008 7:26 PM

What would be really funny would be it turned out that Obama was just a little older than he's supposed to be -- so that when was born, Hawaii wasn't a state yet. (Two years would do it.)

Yes, then Barack Obama would be the one too old to be President

Posted by DonBoy | July 23, 2008 8:16 PM

What would be really funny would be if it turned out that McCain is really an animatronic ice sculpture. Yes, then McCain would be too cold to be President.

(It would explain the fixed grimace anyway.)

Posted by Jeffrey Davis | July 23, 2008 8:45 PM

The intent of the natural-born US citizen clause would seem pretty clearly to include children born to US citizens who register the children as Americans. (My husband, for example, was born overseas to US aid workers.) The argument about the Canal Zone was trying desperately to stretch to a possible technicality, and no court looking at the intent of the law would reasonably conclude that the children of US service members born while their fathers (or mothers) were overseas aren't real citizens. Every other application of law assumes that those born in the Canal Zone to American parents are American citizens, not Panamanians; suddenly that all changes for potential Potus, throwing the citizenship of thousands to the winds?

I'm glad McCaskill introduced the bill to clarify things, but it should have clarified it for the children of US reporters, missionaries, aid workers, business people, diplomats, etc, as well.

Posted by Deborah | July 23, 2008 11:37 PM

What would be really funny would be it turned out that ... when was born, Hawaii wasn't a state yet.

He would have been a natural-born citizen born in a U.S. territory the same as if he had been born in a state. Barry Goldwater had been born in Arizona three years before statehood, the same situation as the hypothetical born-before-statehood Obama.

Posted by Adam Villani | July 24, 2008 2:15 AM

Buried in here is a semi-serious issue. The actual birth certificate, not a copy, is often required for things like getting passports. That is alot of weight on one piece of paper, and I would imagine the problems if a county records bureau catches on fire or gets flooded (nor do you want a document like this lying around the house). Parents should be given multiple "true" copies of the birth certificates of their children, all valid, though maybe in the future the development of digital signatures will take care of this problem.

Posted by Ed | July 24, 2008 2:34 AM

As an aside, I carried around my actual hospital-issued "birth certificate" for some time. It got me in the US Army, it got me drivers licenses, it got me all sorts of things.

Then when my wallet was pick pocketed on a bus, I was told it wasn't valid because it wasn't "certified". So I went down to INS and asked. They confirmed that unless it was "certified", it wasn't valid.

So, no, the only valid "birth certificate" is one issued by the state, with a certified stamp on it.

All of which can be faked by any competent forger.

And, of course, if that fails, you just assume the identity of someone who died at an early age, despite attempts to cross-reference birth and death records.

Meanwhile, that Matt wastes a post on this bullshit is telling. Apparently SLC can jerk Matt's chain better than I can. It took me MONTHS to get Matt to answer my two questions on Iran, but SLC has been posting his bullshit for just a couple of weeks, and Matt's Johnny on the spot for him.

Posted by Richard Steven Hack | July 24, 2008 5:46 AM

I used a copy of my birth certificate to get my passport.

And I'm neither Hawaiian nor Panamanian.

Posted by Jeffrey Davis | July 24, 2008 8:53 AM

Obama has ALREADY produced a copy of his birth certificate.

Check out fightthesmears.com

There is a copy of the certificate there.

Posted by Jan | July 24, 2008 7:50 PM

Obama has ALREADY produced a copy of his birth certificate.

Check out fightthesmears.com

There is a copy of the certificate there.

Posted by Jan | July 24, 2008 7:52 PM

Re converger

I seem to recall that there was a newspaper report several months ago that said that Senator Obama and Vice President Cheney are very distantly related.

Posted by SLC | July 24, 2008 11:44 PM