I've never been 100 percent clear on why you're not supposed to speak ill of the dead, but suffice it to say that while there were many more vile politicians in the world than the now-dead Jesse Helms they were pretty much all brutal dictators and the like. For a late 20th century United States Senator, Helms was just awful -- a bigot who's incredibly retrograde foreign policy views managed to do a surprising amount of harm for a non-president and he's probably responsible for all manner of ills I don't even know about. Good riddance.
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The Dead
04 Jul 2008 11:45 am
Comments (68)
The idea of not speaking ill of the dead is supposed to be in consideration to the dead man's family. But since it's unlikely any member of Helms' family reads this blog, you're probably okay breaching decorum.
Wow. Most of my posts contain a fair amount of Matt bashing, but he hits it on the head here. Good riddance to bad rubbish indeed. He was a mean, nasty, racist piece of work and no one of good will should mourn his passage. If I see Democrats saying kind words for Helms, noting what a gentleman he was even if they dsagreed and relating an amusing Helms anecdote (which I probably will), I'll scream. Well, I would if the unbelievable antics of McCain's base this week had not left me hoarse.
why you're not supposed to speak ill of the dead
I think it may be because they cannot answer the criticisms.
In any event, the principle should be tossed overboard. Everybody go read Hunter S. Thompson on Richard Nixon's passing now - "He Was a Crook."
I've never been 100 percent clear on why you're not supposed to speak ill of the dead,
So they don't come back and haunt you?
If there is any justice in the world, he'll be re-incarnated as a gay, black man in Alabama circa 1925. Im sure there are many gay and black people in Hell also, a fact that Jesse is just going to have to get used to.
He was a fine many who dug in his heels against the ridiculous depredations of our government, particularly the State Department.
He stood up to communists, socialists and other whackos who would work to destroy this country and like Jefferson and Adams, he died on the 4th of July.
God bless him. Saying no is doing something, often doing something very brave.
Marlowe:
Even Sully feels the need to pile on today. I think it is safe to say that not too many people are going to cry over Helms. Good riddance indeed.
He was a fine man who dug in his heels against the ridiculous depredations of our government, particularly the State Department.
He stood up to communists, socialists and other whackos who would work to destroy this country and like Jefferson and Adams, he died on the 4th of July.
God bless him. Saying no is doing something, often doing something very brave.
I've never been 100 percent clear on why you're not supposed to speak ill of the dead,
So they don't come back and haunt you?
Dr. J: "How is it that we hear the loudest yelps for liberty among the drivers of Negroes?"
If I thought I were speaking 'publicly' or to anyone personally connected to him, I'd be happy to be respectful.
As it is, here, I'd like to say that I'm glad another such villain like that is gone from this Earth.
And Helms' even crazier defenders can go f*** himself, along with all the other useless, paranoid, right wing freaks who crawled out of the woodwork to laud Pinochet when he croaked.
"In one noted editorial, he suggested building a wall around the UNC campus, which he called the "University of Negroes and Communists," so that its liberal sentiments could be contained."
What a great moral leader.
With the tragic loss of Bozo, that's two clowns in one week...
Better than speaking ill of the ill, I'd say. Which I'm getting FUCKing tired of, by the way. Seriously.
Helms? Never heard of him.
This is one of those times when an ignoble part of me really hopes there is indeed a Hell.
One of the great Satanists of our time.
JT:
On CNN's Larry King Live (9/15/95), when a caller praised guest Senator Jesse Helms for "everything you've done to help keep down the niggers," Helms replied, "Thank you, I think."
For those of you feeling you're going to miss Jesse's absence too much, you can always tune in to CNN where you can watch the wise, insightful analysis of one Alex Castellanos, the Helms media consultant who came up with the "White Hands" ad telling North Carolinians in 1990 they lost that job 'cause it went to a minority.
Re Jozef
Like Mr. Jozef, fuckface Jesse Helms was a murdering rapist.
I really, really wish I had thought of this. From Balloon-Juice:
TR Says:
I can only hope there’s some sort of affirmative action program in Heaven, and [Helms] loses his spot there because they had to give it to a minority.
Thanks for taking a stand, Matt. Good riddance, indeed.
Andrew Sullivan must be delighted.
As am I.
All we can hope is that he passed quietly.
In terrible agony.
Friday, July 4, 2008 - from my blog:
"She should have died hereafter - time would have been for such a word"
Jesse Helms died today. On the Fourth of July.
“America lost a great public servant and true patriot today", said White House spokesman Scott Stanzel.
An interesting addition to the recent debates about "patriotism"...
In any case, one might have wished him a longer life. At least until after the election of Obama. Maybe even until after the Inauguration.
Jesus, MY, sometimes you are an uber-dick. I'm no Helms fan either, I thought his politics played to the worst of our society, and he probably did pretty bad damage even to his own -- just ask Bill Weld. But you don't talk like this of the dead because it reminds people that the struggle between pricipled opposition or enmity versus reconition of our shared humanity, ends at death, and that certainly when it costs you nothing to be gracious, you are gracious.
Or, well, you aren't.
But maybe we judge each other's sincerity of commitment to policy, to social well being and so on, as opposed to simply tribalism or trust-fund fashion, by those moments of wasted humanity?
C'mon people, mourn the guy's passing. It would've been wonderful to see him comeclean on the error of his ways, maybe help other see that. Won't happen now. That's sad.
Mr. Helms' foreign policy view were a few steps to the left of Hitler, and brought untold misery to the people of South and Central America. That said, he was a child of God, and I would not _wish_ Hell on any human being. I hope that sometime in his last days he repented of the evil he had done.
Sanjay,
He didn't see the errors of his way. And the ones who still don't laugh at such naïve nonsense that you're spouting, which is one step away from 'Can't we all just be friends'.
I'm delighted that he's dead.
Sanjay,
Actually, Matthew is far too kind. I hope Helms died in hideous agony, burns in the fires of hell for all eternity, and gets anally raped by Satan on an hourly basis.
And even so, he will be getting off easy.
who's incredibly retrograde foreign policy views managed to do a surprising amount of harm for a non-president
Jesse Helms submits legislation to end China's most favored nation trade status.
Go piss up a rope, Sanjay.
What a wonderful birthday present for our country!
Ooops, sorry, my bad. Got to remember that I have to spend my time sucking the cock of southern redneck bigots like Helms if I want them to vote for me as President.
good riddance indeed!!!
i wonder if matt recalled my much-reviled reaction when the sainted tim russert died and decided that it was appropriate to use it here.
indeed, helms was the vilest piece of trash in american politics and his racist attitudes, mentality and the power he accumulated over the years did more to hold this country back than is imaginable.
to paraphrase eddie murphy when he played a mister rogers character on saturday night live and was discussing the fact that his wife had left him:
"i'm so glad the [female dog] is gone!"
there... i guess one can treat a politician who may be revered in certain circles a lot more harshly than a revered quasi-journalist!
I have a "Fourth of July" playlist that I run through every year. It's got the traditional and the Hendrix versions of "The Star Spangled Banner," some Mellencamp and Springsteen and Johnny Cash and Grateful Dead, bits of folk and jazz and swing, Bootsy Collins' "One Nation Under A Groove," D.V.D.A's "America, Fuck Yeah" from the South Park movie. That kind of stuff -- things that make you proud to be an American.
I have just now added a new song to the mix: MC Hawking's "Why Won't Jesse Helms Hurry Up And Die?".
Happy birthday, America!
he was a child of God
My first reaction was: "no he wasn't."
My second reaction was that I want no part of any "God" who is in any sense a "father" to filth like Jesse Helms.
I can't believe how kind some posters are being to that evil animal.
Jesse Helms lost. North Carolina is a tolerably humane state where a majority of people (even whites, even Republicans) are embarrassed by his memory, Daniel Ortega is a (lousy) president of Nicaragua, and Nelson Mandela is a happy former president of South Africa. Knowing that he knew all of this is enough for me.
Jesse Helms was a pioneer of all that Republicanism is today.
There, I didn't speak ill of the dead, so's they'd notice, anyway.
I'm 29, and one of my few regrets is that I was not old enough to vote to re-elect Helms in 1996, his last race. A truly great and honorable man, one who stood up to the sort of people who post on this board. When I have a son, I will name him Jesse Helms. Imagine what a great country this will be if we could have 51 Jesse Helms in the Senate and 5 on the Supreme Court....
"Nothing positive happened to Sodom and Gomorrah,” Helms said, “and nothing positive is likely to happen to America if our people succumb to the drumbeats of support for the homosexual lifestyle.”
Quoted for Truth.
Marlowe -
Wow. Most of my posts contain a fair amount of Matt bashing, but he hits it on the head here. Good riddance to bad rubbish indeed.
El Cid -
As it is, here, I'd like to say that I'm glad another such villain like that is gone from this Earth.
Nice to know how receptive you will be when Teddy Kennedy soon kicks the bucket with his malignant brain glioma and the "good riddance to the drunken guy who ran and left a young woman to drown" "good riddance to the scummiest Kennedy of their Clan" "The ghosts of Cambodia and the Vietnamese re-education camps Kennedy helped cause dance with joy today."
Of course you won't hear it. Conservatives may think it, but we are far more classy than Lefties about saying it out loud..
Don't like it? Well, f**k yourself right back..
Soon enough, another Senate Titan with his own history of polarizing people will draw his last gasp at Mass General or Hyannisport.
Kevin,
While I realize that this will just confirm (in your diseased mind) everything that you believe about "the people who post on this board," I sincerely hope that you get cancer and die painfully before you can reproduce. Animals like you are filth.
Chris Ford,
Of course you won't hear it. Conservatives may think it, but we are far more classy than Lefties about saying it out loud..
Having just said it, you then claim to be classy. That's magnificent hypocrisy, even for you Chris.
Bravo.
We can cover Kennedy another day. For now, let's enjoy this moment.
I imagine Kevin is bait, but it's impressive that in even his wildest dreams he can't imagine that all of the senators and the supreme court would be Helms.
even in his fantasies, he dreams of 51%.
Ah yes, defense of Helms from one of our resident racists - who would have thought it.
And look, it's the Will Allen memorial fuckwittery of "The Democrats are responsible for Pol Pol." Kennedy didn't secretly drop bombs all over Cambodia. That's your boy - Nixon (and possibly Johnson, who couldn't run again because real Democrats were taking over the party and saying "no more murder for empire").
Kennedy may have been responsible for the death of a woman. Cheney, Bush, and Helms did everything in their power to empower fascism and mass murder. The comparison doesn't cut very well for you dipshit.
Hey Chris Ford, you genocidal lunatic,
Nobody here is stupid enough to buy your silly sophomoric "I think bad things about Kennedy, but I'm too classy to say them" bullshit. You just did what you said you wouldn't do, asshole. But honestly that is by far the least of your many crimes; your cheer leading of the mass murder of innocents in Iraq is, of course, far, far worse.
Two other points. The first is that many, many, many other conservatives will, indeed, say just that.
Secondly, this isn't just about politics. There are a number of honorable conservatives out there who have not earned the vituperation that the Helms creature so richly merited. But Helms was a monster, irrespective of politics.
Be that as it may, it's been a while since I've wished death upon you, you murderous freak. Here's hoping for a quick but painful death for you, you fucking monster.
All artists in the world are rejoicing today....Poetic he died on Independence Day.
@chris ford
Conservatives are classier? Won't hear it from Conservatives? You must be joking.
First of all you'll hear it on the frickin radio. You'll hear it from Michael Savage and Michael Regan straight out. You'll hear it from Rush Limbaugh probably as a satirical jab. You'll get it from Sean Hannity prefixed with "I don't like to speak ill of the dead but..." and suffixed with "Hail Mary humana humana humana." In print, Michelle Malkin will write something at least that vile if not more vile, Krauthamer won't comment because it's not about Iran, and Bill Kristol will probably say something passive aggressive like he always does.
Secondly, need i remind you that Jesse Helms was a BIGOT. He was a vile, disgusting racist hatemonger who exploited fear and hatred in order to further his own wealth and personal power. He was a disgusting man. Ted Kennedy also furthered his own wealth and power, but did it on the back of helping the poor against the rich, the weak against the powerful. Some of his ideas had unfortunate consequences, for sure, and he did some very bad things, but at least he wasn't a monster.
And there you go, standing up for a monster. You must be proud.
Jesse Helms' eulogy, courtesy of the late/great Bill Hicks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igvJ1Mew6Go
I've never been 100 percent clear on why you're not supposed to speak ill of the dead
I think it's about consideration for their families, and therefore would apply more, say, to stuff like the Phelps crowd showing up at funerals with placards about God hating fags, than, say, to an obituary describing Helms' career noting accurately that it included support for segregation and opposition to civil rights.
Chris Ford,
Do you ever listen to Hannity or Rush - a sizable chunk of their shtick is making fun of a drunk Kennedy. Helms was an unapologetic homophobe and racist. I agree with the sentiments that he should have lived long enough to see Obama win the presidency.
HEIL HITLER
Jesse was a gay-hater, but there's more to life than that. I remember, as a young gay conservative Reaganite in San Francisco in 1984, how I and some friends went to a bathhouse on Reagan's birthday, we promised to contribute a dollar for each hook-up to Jesse Helms' re-election campaign, cause we had a friend who had a, shall we say, difficult time as a homosexual in Nicaragua. We did that several times, got some more people, and raised about $1200, IIRC. Just got married in California and we talked about that at the reception...sure, he was a queer-basher, but he wasn't all bad. If it wasn't for people like Helms gays would still be oppressed and persecuted in countries like Hungary, East Germany, Soviet Union, etc.
When Bette Davis was told she shouldn't speak ill of the dead, she replied: "Just because someone is dead does not mean they have changed."
Because it requires a certain amount of refinement and class. Something you, obviously, do not have or understand.
I'm 29, and one of my few regrets is that I was not old enough to vote to re-elect Helms in 1996, his last race. A truly great and honorable man, one who stood up to the sort of people who post on this board. When I have a son, I will name him Jesse Helms. Imagine what a great country this will be if we could have 51 Jesse Helms in the Senate and 5 on the Supreme Court....
Obvious troll is obvious.
2/10
"Here richly, with ridiculous display,
The Politician's corpse was laid away.
While all of his acquaintances sneered and slanged,
I wept; for I had hoped to see him hanged."
-- Hilaire Belloc
As for Teddy Kennedy, it will be entirely fine with me if after his death they mention -- at length -- his filthy behavior at Chappaquidick. Whenever I hear that we shouldn't speak ill of the late So-And-So because it would hurt their families' feelings, I find myself thinking, "What about their victims' families?" Helms, however, had a lot more victims than Teddy.
Meanwhile, be sure and catch the AP's incredible obit of Helms ( http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080704/ap_on_re_us/obit_helms ), in which they manage to almost completely avoid mentioning the fact that he successfully built most of his political career on opposing integration and black voting rights. What's next? We have to sit through his televised funeral on CNN?
[Postscript: Matt, you have GOT to do something about your spelling. It's holding you back, socially.]
About 15 years ago I gave up smoking for the last time (at least to now). Having gone cold turkey a couple of times before (lasting about 2 1/2 years) I was prepared for the worst. But a smoke-ender's program reduced the agony to a couple of days rather than a week. They urged us to find motivators and one that really helped me was the thought that every time I took a puff I was helping to re-elect that abomination.
Thanks, Jesse. Not everything you did was evil, although I'm sure you tried.
Just about a year ago Jerry Falwell died. As then, although I am an atheist (also white, straight, and almost 70 and ethnically Jewish) I find myself fervently wishing that there is an afterlife.
Matt, just remember that when you make a petty, vitriolic attack on the dead b/c they were conservative, don't expect any conservatives to cry when you die.
Matt, just remember that when you make a petty, vitriolic attack on the dead b/c they were conservative, don't expect any conservatives to cry when you die.
There is no attack too vicious for a man who supported Central American death squads, Apartheid, Jim Crow in the United States and killing gays by withholding funds for AIDS treatment.
The man is more useful as fertilizer than he was alive.
As someone who actually had Jesse Helms representing me in the Senate for 30 years of my life, I would like to invite everybody tut-tutting the incivility of Helms' detractors to go [can't come up with a suitably degrading analogy].
The man was pure evil, and we are a better country now that he's gone. I'm sure you will all respectfully mourn David Duke's passing as well.
I think comments about the dead are felt to say more about the speaker than the deceased. In that spirit, Jesse's retirement was one of the biggest improvements in Senate history. His death changes nothing, so let the old fool rest in peace.
Aatos,
No, no, a thousand times no. He wasn't an "old fool;" he was a monster of staggering proportions. The fact that he wasn't torn apart by an angry mob and his corpse dragged through the streets of Washington is a horrible tragedy.
If I was running things around here, his body would be dug up and desecrated; his head would be left to rot on a pike on the Capital steps as a warnign to others for the next two or three generations.
Looks like I'll have to schedule a road trip to North Carolina so I can piss on his fucking grave.
LarryM writes: "If I was running things around here, his body would be dug up and desecrated; his head would be left to rot on a pike on the Capital steps as a warnign to others for the next two or three generations."
Is this the same LarryM who used to say I was going too far?
I'm glad to see you've come around to my point of view.
But you forgot to mention that Helms' head should be boiled in a pot of weasel urine first. Repent!
Always treat your enemies as if they are your enemies because they will invariably treat you that way.
There is one exception: when you are trying to be their friend so you can poison them before they realize you're their enemy.
Grand Panjandrum: Dig him up first, and piss directly on him. Just pissing on his grave is inadequate even if it does seep onto his face.
I can't wait for Dick Cheney to have his final heart attack. I'll probably actually go out to eat to celebrate. At a real restaurant.
"I think comments about the dead are felt to say more about the speaker than the deceased."
Yeah - well, that's why they're called "the dead". They can't hear the comments.
I get called an asshole because I prefer to tell these scum what I think of them publicly while they're still alive.
Now how many more of the US Congress can we convince to drop dead? Everybody, get out your voodoo dolls!
Moe,
It's the same LarryM. But I never said you went too far - just that some of your trolling is lame. Sometimes your specific targets are undeserving of the level of scorn that you heap upon them (or, in some cases, they don't deserve scorn at all; i.e., you sometimes paint with too broad a brush).
But Helms - well, THERE is a man deserving of the deepest and most comprehensive scorn imaginable. May he burn in the fires of hell for all eternity.
LarryM replies: "It's the same LarryM. But I never said you went too far - just that some of your trolling is lame. Sometimes your specific targets are undeserving of the level of scorn that you heap upon them (or, in some cases, they don't deserve scorn at all; i.e., you sometimes paint with too broad a brush).
But Helms - well, THERE is a man deserving of the deepest and most comprehensive scorn imaginable. May he burn in the fires of hell for all eternity."
Of course you said I went too far - and you said it more than once. I think I pick my targets fairly well, but in the long run it all seems to work out.
As for Helms and hell, one of the ways I know for sure that I'm better than Repiglicans is that I wouldn't wish eternal torture even on a fucking useless bag of pus like Jesse. Let's come up with an alternative sentence - how about a thousand years eating nothing but African smegma, washed down with fermented pygmy sweat?
Respect for the dead is earned, not given automatically. The vast majority of humanity earns this. Jesse Helms did not. He supported segregation, death squads, apartheid, etc. He supported the use of state terror. He supported people who raped and mutilated nuns. This goes beyond conservatism (after all, he hated moderate conservatives like Bill Weld because Weld and co. don't hate brown people) right into fascism. The last thing we need more of in this country is more fascists. Fuck him.
Comments closed July 18, 2008.
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Heads in the Sand
"I've never been 100 percent clear on why you're not supposed to speak ill of the dead"
In general, because they can't respond. I thought that was pretty obvious?
Posted by DBT | July 4, 2008 11:55 AM