Slate interactive venn diagram of Bush administration criminals is fun and funny, but in that "having played with this for a few minutes I'm actually really depressed" kind of way.
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The Times We Live In
26 Jul 2008 09:11 am
Comments (28)
What's worse is that, as depressing as this is, it is only a very, very partial list of major Bush administration crimes.
Where is the outing of a CIA agent as political retribution? The abuse of government resources for political gain (the GSA scandal)? The emerging pay-to-play case with the Bush library?
A quick look through TPM's Grand Old Docket reveals numerous other crimes that belong up there. And those are just the ones that actually involved serious legal action!
Alberto Gonzales wins!!
Rumsfeld is in only one box, the 'coercive interrogation' box, which seems strange, until you notice the biggest missing scandal of them all, the fabrication of the case for war. So big and so missing it almost seems repressed.
Where is the Clinton administration Venn? Probably looks like a fully colored in box.
Look, Rumsfeld and Gonzalez are not criminals, regardless of what the rest of the world thinks. Criminals are found guilty of commiting crimes.
By dances' reasoning, OJ is not a murderer.
Where is the Clinton administration Venn?
Didn't you get the memo? Clinton Administration crimes don't count. For the Bush-haters, the law is simply a tool to be used for political purposes. It has nothing to do with justice.
If I'm the end of a two term Obama administration and I'm still bitching about the GW Bush administration shoot me.
For the Bush-haters, the law is simply a tool to be used for political purposes. It has nothing to do with justice.
I used to think the psychological concept of projection was kind of a crock, until I started reading online wingnuts.
If I'm the end of a two term Obama administration and I'm still bitching about the GW Bush administration shoot me.
Unfortunately there's a real chance we'll still be feeling the W legacy day to day for quite some time to come.
"Didn't you get the memo? Clinton Administration crimes don't count. For the Bush-haters, the law is simply a tool to be used for political purposes. It has nothing to do with justice.
Posted by Mixner"
Now this is pretty funny.
HAHA funny.
He honestly believes fake Travelgate/Lewinski/ANY NUMBER OF RIGHT WING BULLSHIT MEMES THAT AMOUNTED TO NOTHING=Bush.
I will take that trade, and more importantly, take it right to the U.S. public.
Vox Populi!
ANY NUMBER OF RIGHT WING BULLSHIT MEMES THAT AMOUNTED TO NOTHING
You mean like Clinton's bombing of Yugoslavia without UN approval? How about the sanctions that killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis?
Have you suddenly became a believer in international law, Mixner?
Because the Bush crimes listed in that Venn diagram are all illegal under U.S. law. I know you think you are cute playing Noam Chomsky and all.
Have you suddenly became a believer in international law, Mixner?
Sorry, this isn't about what I believe regarding international law. It's about the absurd hypocrisy and double standards of Bush-haters who claim to believe in international law but completely disregard the crimes or potential crimes under international law committed by the Clinton Administration. You never even pay any attention whatsoever to that matter until people like me throw it in your face.
There is no clearer illustration of the fact that your "belief in international law" is a total sham. You only care about international law to the extent that you think you can use it as a weapon against the hated Bush.
"If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have neither on your side, pound the table." Lookee who's waving his shoe about!
I opposed the brutal, civilian-killing sanctions on Iraqis, when they were first put in place by George Bush Sr. and when they were continued by Clinton, with full support of the Democratic and then Republican Congress.
The U.S. foreign policy establishment is devoted to acting horrifically in many areas (both of policy and geographically); the empirical record suggests that, at best, we are able to occasionally restrain its damage somewhat.
No, you there is a piece there that you are missing.
There is a case to be made that the sanctions against Iraq constituted a blockade and may have been a crime against peace. There is also a case to be made on Serbia. I wasn't a supporter of the bombing and there is a background that as you have stated you aren't really interested in but I know that international law is a work in progress and that it's a long slog and rough justice and a goal to be worked toward.
I'm *not* the sort of sycophant you are. I protested Clinton for a number of reasons during his second term and didn't vote for Gore. What you are doing is projecting.
Now take international law off the table and recognize that you are defending a criminal who violated American law. On a serious playing field regarding hypocrisy you wind up with your theoretical partisan Clinton lover defending him over perjury regarding an affair. On the other hand there is you who is defending an administration that tortured people to death and if there weren't the politics involved would be facing a death sentance under the War Crimes Act.
Why does anyone (myself included) engage Mixner, I have to wonder. He's doing the totally standard wingnut move of ignoring the actual subject of the thread, about which he has said precisely nothing, and shouting CLINTON!!! LIBERAL HYPOCRISY!!! in a pathetic attempt to change the subject. People fall for it, somehow.
Ed Marshall,
I protested Clinton for a number of reasons during his second term and didn't vote for Gore.
So you seek an official government investigation into accusations of violations of international law committed by Clinton Administration officials, including Bill Clinton himself, followed by prosecution where recommended by the investigating body, do you? So let's start with Clinton's bombing of Yugoslavia without UN approval, a prima facie violation of international law. As far as I'm aware, there is no statute of limitations on crimes of this nature, so you can't use that as an excuse to avoid going after Clinton, Madeleine Albright, Wesley Clark, etc. Let me know what you intend to do to bring these potential criminals to justice. After all, you've only had nine years to pursue justice on this matter. Have you even written your Senators and congressman about it?
Because it's the last gasp, guyx.
Right-wing bullshit goes in this order:
We rock
They suck
You suck
Everything sucks
If they are down to "Everything sucks" (and that's what his pathetic argument boils down to) it's the last leg of the chair to kick out. Even if it's just Matt Y's comment section that almost no one reads it's a barometer of something.
Ed Marshall,
Still waiting to hear what you're planning to do about Clinton Adminsisration violations of international law. Or are you just going to keep demonstrating what a hypocrite you are?
So let's start with Clinton's bombing of Yugoslavia without UN approval, a prima facie violation of international law
You have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.
You have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.
Brilliant rebuttal, Ed. So what are you claiming, exactly? That the bombing never actually happened? That Clinton had nothing to do with it? That the UN had in fact approved it? Or what?
shorter "guyx" (a.k.a. "voice of reason," a.k.a. this blog's resident member of the really loony left):
[Puts fingers in ears] LA-LA-LA-LA! I can't heaaaar you! Must repeat mantra.....must repeat mantra....Clinton good, Bush evil.....Clinton good, Bush evil....LA-LA-LA-LA!
Lather, rinse, repeat.
I'm not going to sit around and play lawyer with you on international law, Mixner.
Fine, you've convinced me. To hell with international law. Down with all that.
Now let's start talking about what a non corrupt AG would do with Bush regarding domestic law. Haul Clinton out for whatever you think he needs. I don't care a bit. You do believe in all that "rule of law" right? You aren't a hypocrite?
Mixner seems to think I'm the same person as some other commenter, which is just one more thing he's wrong about.
Note that when it comes to actually addressing the subject of the crimes of the current administration, he has nothing to say, confirming my characterization of him above.
Oh, look at Dorothy skipping along with the straw man!
(It's not as if she was old enough to remember the Clinton presidency anyway.)
I really want to hear more about this theory that bombing a country without U.N. approval is, on its face, a violation of international law. Maybe the U.N. might say it is, but I don't know of any precedent for it, I don't know of any international body that would prosecute it. The Serb regime, on the other hand, was made up of proven war criminals.
This sounds like another of Mixner's fantasies. Mixner, you have any support for that theory, that military action without U.N. approval is a violation of international law?
I'm not really prepared to say that Bush is an international war criminal for attacking Iraq, either. Maybe for our treatment of detainees, but not for the war itself, unless you buy the theory that all of the supposed threats posed by Saddam were completely made up, rather than exaggerated for political gain. Bush has violated plenty of domestic laws, of course. As did Clinton, but Bush's violations seem much worse to me.
I really want to hear more about this theory that bombing a country without U.N. approval is, on its face, a violation of international law.
It's a violation of the U.N. Charter:
All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
The only exceptions to this are self-defense and explicit authorization by the UN Security Council.
Comments closed August 09, 2008.
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Heads in the Sand
Where's Plame?
Posted by Scooter | July 26, 2008 9:47 AM