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Thesis Follies

25 Jul 2008 10:25 am

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Steve Sailer darkly hints:

I hear Stanley Kurtz has been in Illinois digging up Obama's paper trail for upcoming articles in the Weekly Standard and National Review. I have no idea what he's found, but it's certainly about time that somebody went looking.

Meanwhile, Noam Scheiber writes about reporters' efforts to get their hands on a copy of Barack Obama's senior thesis, all copies of which have apparently gone missing from Columbia. The thesis was about nuclear negotiating strategies of the United States during the Cold War, and Obama's professor says it's unlikely to be controversial, and Noam concedes that it's an "exceedingly small deal" but still that "your default posture as a journalist, rather than a partisan or an operative, is that you always want more insight into the person your covering. I don't think it's at all unreasonable for us to push to see a project that Obama labored on for a year."

This is worth wondering about. When I was in college, I wrote a senior thesis. It was even, in a sense, on a politically relevant topic having to do with John Rawls' Political Liberalism. You might think that if you really wanted to understand what I thought about certain political issues you'd need to dig up that paper to gain some insights. But realistically, insofar as I can recall what the thesis said (I don't have a copy, but I believe it's in the university archives) it says stuff I don't believe anymore. If you really want to gain additional insights into what Matt Yglesias thinks about the issues, you should probably read my frequently updated blog.

Similarly, if you want to know what Barack Obama thinks about arms control you should listen to his speeches about arms control, look at his record in the United States Senate, and perhaps look at the stated views of some of his close associates on these matters. Just like the secret key to understanding John McCain's foreign policy views is to read the various major foreign policy speeches his given over his past ten years' worth of presidential campaigning and, again, look at the record and stated views of his associates. Journalists pride themselves on their sleuthing abilities -- trying to find new information and bring it into the public record -- but when you're talking about public officials the odds are that the most important information about their character and their policies is going to be the stuff that's already a matter of public record. An old college paper is just an old college paper.

Photo by Flickr user Mr. Littlehand used under a Creative Commons license

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Comments (87)

If you want to see Obama's position on Arms Control, all you have to do is look at his job as the new "Sam Nunn" in the Nunn-Lugar Cooperative Threat Reduction program.

I am baffled by this whole "Obama doesn't know jack about furriners" meme since Obama made trips to real bumfuck places in Russia like Perm' to inspect how Nunn-Lugar money is being spent by the Russians.

This is the context in which to understand the Obama campaign's reported reluctance to allow anyone from Obama's past to talk to the press. The press is presenting this as just a matter of Obama/Axelrod not wanting the facts to interfere with their myth making. No doubt, there is some of that. But it is also the case that, due to Obama's unusual background and relative lack of exposure, the national press is eager to find examples of past radicalism or insufficient Americaness. They are looking for white ex-girlfriends, evidence that he held controversial political views as a 19 year old and use of Marxist scholarship in his senior thesis. Seriously, look at Lynn Sweet. She recently did a self-righteous expose on Barack and Michelle's summer jobs, angrily denouncing their prior reluctance to give specifics.

The Obama campaign is right not to cooperate.

What I really want to know is what will be the precise date you weigh more than Ambinder.

Did you know you have a strong resemblance to a UK Comedian?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Carr

If not, i'd like to know what the correct link where Sailer was talking his usual bilge was.

They're not looking for Obama's thesis to get a better understanding of his foreign policy; they're looking for it in hopes of finding something scandalous or erroneous that they can make into a story. This is probably as much true for the real reporters looking into this as it is for the Weekly Standard people looking into it.

It's hard to imagine what kind of lefty radical notions you could find in a paper on Cold War negotiating strategies, though, unless Obama went off on a rapturous paean to the glories of the Soviet Union. That's probably exactly what people like Steve Sailer are hoping/expecting to find in there.

Let me get this straight: the weekly standard feels it is legitimate to look into the freaking thesis Obama wrote in college but didn't feel it legitimate to look into how Dubya got into the Texas Air National Guard or whether he served his full term there?

I wish I could say I was surprised.

Uh, if Obama can quote Ronald fucking Reagan, and it's still a "controversy" in Crackerstan, what do you think they'd to with a senior thesis?
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I'm pretty sure that those "No Quarters Please Dollars Only" people have talked to a guy who has a cousin who heard someone talking about an e-mail of an advance copy in which Barack Obama used the term "whitey" in this paper.

Hey, that's a freshman dorm...no senior thesis writing there.

btw, the idea that as a journalist you're always looking for "insight" is a great example of the stunning ways in which journalists are completely clueless about what it is they actually do all day: scheiber can't be serious here, can he?

... have talked to a guy who has a cousin who heard someone talking about an e-mail of an advance copy in which ...

There's already an email that purports to reveal Obama's disdain for the troops, from a Marine who calls himself a "soldier" and who garbles commander in chief as "commander and chief."

Fake, sad, and desperate.
.

but it's certainly about time that somebody went looking.

Forget his crackpot racial theories and animosities. That "about time" is the single looniest thing Sailer has ever said. Right, Steve. Nobody has ever tried to dig up something about Obama before.

Get help, chum.

Does this mean we can talk about McCain's extramarital affair, divorce, and moving 2500 miles away from his 3 teenaged kids 27 years ago?

but when you're talking about public officials the odds are that the most important information about their character and their policies is going to be the stuff that's already a matter of public record

While that is true for mst politicians, it is not true for Obama.

Obama's records from his years in the Illinois State Senate have mysteriously been destroyed. So that important stuff is not a matter of public record - anymore, at least.

Like Nawrocki said. They're hoping to find he plagiarized or something.

Similarly, if you're interested in my thoughts on the distribution of velocities in an ideal gas, you could ask my Thermo professor for a copy of my final exam in 1998. If you do, please bear in mind that it was my last final of college, I'd golfed 18 holes that morning, and I was thinking about the cute girl sitting kitty-corner from me. As such the analysis might not hold up under scrutiny. That said, I did score an A in the course, so my opinion probably aligned moderately well with Boltzmann's.

Does this mean we can talk about McCain's extramarital affair, divorce, and moving 2500 miles away from his 3 teenaged kids 27 years ago?

You forgot a step.

...extramarital affair, second marriage, divorce from first wife...

Fixed.

"Similarly, if you want to know what Barack Obama thinks about arms control you should listen to his speeches about arms control, look at his record in the United States Senate, and perhaps look at the stated views of some of his close associates on these matter"

What "Record in the Senate". Dude, back away from that pipe.

The good news is that this may be actual journalism; the reporter is doing research and will report what he learns. The problem is that it 1)senior theses whether from Columbia, Harvard or anywhere else tend to be pretty lame affairs and 2)someone that writes a senior thesis on issues international import is likely to have a better understanding of these issues than someone that graduated at the bottom of their class from the Naval Academy and spent much of the rest of their life marinating their brain in bourbon. It seems unlikely that this nuance will be reported in any article by Kurtz.

I think your point might be that old college papers should have little relevance to a voter deciding who to vote for now; but it certainly matters as part of a historical record (otherwise why should we waste so much time collecting the papers and letters of historical figures of interest). We might care about what Matthew Yglesias believes most recently about a subject if we are interested in how he is going to act now according to that subject; if we are interested in Matthew Yglesias as a scholar/academic/writer, I see no reason to privilege Friday's blog post over his college thesis (and probably a lot of reasons to privilege his thesis...)

Certainly in a hundred years historians will be interested in the early writings of Barack Obama (well, if not certainly, hopefully)...they may see a college thesis as providing more insight than a campaign speech as to how he thought about the interactions of the world . . . to that extent, I don't think we need to wait a hundred years to be curious now.

Of course, people who want to dig up papers not to gain insight but to triumphantly point to a twenty-two year old saying something critical about the good 'ole USA should be viewed with suspicion, but that doesn't mean it isn't a legitimate subject of interest...

Um, people like Noam Scheiber should be aware that Stanley Kurtz is madder than a whole wonderland full of hatters and that Steve Sailer never leaves home without his handy white hood, right?

I heard that McCain's senior thesis (pun intended) is a masterpiece. Written on 3 different cave walls in brillant colored stone and Wooly Mammoth blood.

No need to bag on Perm in #1 above- it's not a tourist destination but it's a pretty big city (more than a million people, if I recall) and hosts a large philosophy conference I took part in once every year. I pretty decent place. (Cold, though.)

Mostly, though, I'm just amused you said that Sailor "darkly" hinted at something.

I heard that McCain's senior thesis (pun intended) is a masterpiece. Written on 3 different cave walls in brillant colored stone and Wooly Mammoth blood.

I heard that McCain's senior thesis (pun intended) is a masterpiece. Written on 3 different cave walls in brillant colored stone and Wooly Mammoth blood.

My senior thesis was on Lou Rawls' Political Liberalism. I wonder if they're related or share the same view points. I bet John doesn't sing as well.

No need to bag on Perm in #1 above- it's not a tourist destination but it's a pretty big city (more than a million people, if I recall) and hosts a large philosophy conference I took part in once every year. I pretty decent place. (Cold, though.)

I've been to Perm' and the surrounding Kama River area about half a dozen times, in the -40 depths of winter as well as in the mosquito-ridden summer when you just have to open your mouth and let them fly in to get your daily protein requirement.

There may be no NEED to bag on Perm', but there is good reason too.

Best place in Perm'? The "Norman" liquor supermarket on the main square across from the Opera House.

I'm pretty impressed that Obama and Lugar would take the time to go out there.

howard, I'm not sure I see your point. Is it wrong to say that a journalist should want more insight about the people they cover? Do you just not believe Schieber is sincere?

No need to bag on Perm in #1 above- it's not a tourist destination but it's a pretty big city (more than a million people, if I recall) and hosts a large philosophy conference I took part in once every year. I pretty decent place. (Cold, though.)

I've been to Perm' and the surrounding Kama River area about half a dozen times, in the -40 depths of winter as well as in the mosquito-ridden summer when you just have to open your mouth and let them fly in to get your daily protein requirement.

There may be no NEED to bag on Perm', but there is good reason too.

Best place in Perm'? The "Norman" liquor supermarket on the main square across from the Opera House.

I'm pretty impressed that Obama and Lugar would take the time to go out there.

Oh dear gods, I'm glad I never plan to run for high office and that school board or city council would be my highest aspiration.

If these people got their hands on the loony libertarian claptrap I wrote about in college I'd be so embarrassed.

Barack Obama betrayed his Muslim sensibilities in a newly-uncovered watercolor painting from 2nd grade.

His distaste for hard-working Americans is also apparent, as the white people are depicted as hideous, top-heavy, four-fingered monstrosities. His critique of bourgeois consumerism can be noted by the overlong eyelashes and rouged cheeks of his women characters.

IOKIYAR.

It's ok to insist that W's drinking, cocaine inhaling, draft and National Guard training evading, are off limits.

It's ok to reject a war hero in the 2000 Repub primaries because of scurrilous lies spread by the Rovemeister.

It's ok to tarnish the war record of a brave veteran - Kerry - who volunteered for very dangerous missions in Vietnam.

It's ok to demonize a Vietnam vet who lost several limbs in service of his country.

BUT, LEAVE JOHN MCCAIN ALOOOONE

"My senior thesis was on Lou Rawls' Political Liberalism."

You're Gonna Miss My Liberalism
You're Gonna Miss, You're Gonna Miss My Liberalism

The desperation just reeks. They want to see if Obama had something controversial in a paper he wrote as a 21 year old? It's quite pathetic.

too many steves wrote, Is it wrong to say that a journalist should want more insight about the people they cover?

It seems doubtful that this would provide much insight.

The best insight into the future behavior of politicians is their past behavior---as politicians.

on a semi-related note, if anyone finds the Brother Word Processor containing my college-era poetry, could they please let me know...thanks in advance.

"They're not looking for Obama's thesis to get a better understanding of his foreign policy; they're looking for it in hopes of finding something scandalous or erroneous that they can make into a story."

Tom Nawrocki is totally right about this. I recently moved and while pawing through old crap I found a stack of my old college papers. How humiliating! Drab writing; feckless thinking; pretentious interpretations; lazy research... why did so many of those papers get "A's"? What the hell was wrong with those professors?

Could it be that -- just perhaps -- they were applying a different standard to an undergraduate than they would to a grown-up and/or fellow professional scholar? Nah! Who ever heard of someone going to school to actually learn anything, and maybe even make a mistake along the way?

They did the same thing with Hillary's senior thesis and if I recall, it was pretty useless for any analytical purpose. Feh.

"Obama's records from his years in the Illinois State Senate have mysteriously been destroyed. So that important stuff is not a matter of public record - anymore, at least."


What records are you talking about, Al? His voting record is a matter of public record, and that hasn't disappeared.

Are you referring to memos written by Obama while a State Senator? I don't how it is in your home state, but it's not exactly a standard operating procedure for members of the Illinois General Assembly to archive something like that. So this idea that his records have mysteriously vanished strikes me as utter BS.

Moreover, Obama was not part of the legislative leadership of the Illinois State Senate. When Obama first joined the state Senate, Republican Pate Phillip was the Senate President, and Democrat Emil Jones was the minority leader. When the Dems regained control of the state Senate, Jones become the state Senate president. Considering how much of the decision making in the Illinois General Assembly tends to be done by the House Speaker and the Senate President and the minority leaders of the state House and the state Senate, there wouldn't exactly be much of a paper trail issued by an individual state legislator in Illinois to start with.

Moreover, state legislatures such as the Illinois General Assembly tend to operate much less formally then Congress, and most communication by state legislators of either party tends to be face to face, and often in informal settings. That further reduces the volumne of written records that an individual Illinois state legislator would generate.

But if you need to know what Obama was doing as a state senator outside of relatively unimportant things like voting on Illinois state laws, just consult the archives of newspapers such as the Chicago Tribune, the Chicago Sun-Times, the Chicago Reader, the Defender, the Daily Herald, etc.

No need to bag on Perm in #1 above- it's not a tourist destination but it's a pretty big city (more than a million people, if I recall) and hosts a large philosophy conference I took part in once every year. I pretty decent place. (Cold, though.)

And Perm is the home of Tchaikovsky's original ballet company too! Great dancers, all the talent and expertise of the Bolshoi without the attitude.

Am I the only one who thinks it's odd that Matt doesn't have a copy of his own senior thesis? I can see being sick of it by the time you're done, but still, it was something you put a lot of work into.

Or did you burn it in a symbolic rite-of-passage type gesture? That would be kind of cool. Or did somebody throw up on it at a graduation party or something?

But really: you don't even have it on a computer, server, hard drive, etc., somewhere? That seems odd.

I graduated in 1986. (was a freshman when candidate was a senior)

There was no such thing as a senior thesis at the College at that time.

What "Record in the Senate". Dude, back away from that pipe.

Posted by Ted Janson

I think he was referring to this.

January 11, 2007


Lugar-Obama Nonproliferation Legislation Signed into Law by the President

WASHINGTON – President Bush today signed the Lugar-Obama proliferation and threat reduction initiative into law.

Authored by U.S. Sens. Dick Lugar (R-IN) and Barack Obama (D-IL), the Lugar-Obama initiative expands U.S. cooperation to destroy conventional weapons. It also expands the State Department's ability to detect and interdict weapons and materials of mass destruction.

"The United States should do more to eliminate conventional weapons stockpiles and assist other nations in detecting and interdicting weapons of mass destruction. We believe that these functions are underfunded, fragmented and in need of high-level support," said Lugar, Republican leader of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

"The Lugar-Obama initiative will help other nations find and eliminate conventional weapons that have been used against our own soldiers in Iraq and sought by terrorists all over the world," said Obama. "The Nunn-Lugar program has effectively disposed of thousands of weapons of mass destruction, but we must do far more to keep deadly conventional weapons like anti-aircraft missiles out of the hands of terrorists."

All caught up, now?
.

"Mostly, though, I'm just amused you said that Sailor "darkly" hinted at something."

Exactamundo.

I'd honestly like to see those intellectually handicapped douchebag "journalists" make it through Obama's senior thesis without falling asleep.

I think the more important question here: could McCain even have gotten into a senior thesis program, graduating 5th from the bottom of his class?

too many steves, let me try to clarify: i see no evidence that journalism is about "insights."

i do think that scheiber is "sincere" in saying that journalism is about "insights," but i think it's the kind of sincerity that leaves journalists saying "i'm being criticized by both sides, i must be doing the right thing."

in short, scheiber may believe, quite "sincerely," that he's after "insights," but i think this is the kind of thing journalists tell themselves and believe about themselves. that doesn't make it so.

does that clarify?

Sure. As far as that, "I'm being criticized by both sides, then I must be doing a good job," obviously that's wrong. However, I think it would be accurate for a journalist to say, "If I'm doing a good job, then I'll probably be criticized by both sides."

Anyway, a serious magazine-type journalist who's writing about Obama probably wants to know every trivial detail about the guy. Then the writer decides how important it is. I don't see anything wrong with that.

I'm sorry MattB...but I'm going to have to call you on your story...

A cute girl in a Thermo class? No one is going to believe that.

too many steves, i think we've found the point of differentiation.

if i'm writing a scholarly biography of someone, then i want to know all there is to know (and then some).

if i'm a journalist (at least in my estimation) not so much: i'm not looking for "insights," i'm looking for "leads" and "hooks" and similar matters.

Well, there are different kinds of journalists. TNR and The Atlantic and the rest are sometimes looking for leads and hooks, but sometimes they're writing serious biography-type profiles. I'm not saying every attempt at a serious profile succeeds, but some of them do, and they're about "insights."

What records are you talking about, Al?

He's talking about Obama's box of Jethro Tull albums that got ruined when his basement flooded.

I'd bet real money that this 25 year old student thesis is more relevant on nuclear issues than anything McCain has said in the last 5 years.

Thinking back to my college papers (all of one year ago!) I'm certain that I wrote things that I wouldn't agree with now (never mind decades from now), and that don't inform my thinking in any way.

Hell, there were papers that I wrote which I didn't even agree with when I was halfway through them. I wrote on because either I thought it was a provocative, interesting point to argue, or I just had to turn the damn thing in and didn't want to waste time coming up with a completely new argument. This is especially true for longer papers. Who would want to start their thesis over 30 pages in?

I'd bet real money that this 25 year old student thesis is more relevant on nuclear issues than anything McCain has said in the last 5 years.

Indeed, it is in the Harvard library catalog:

http://lms01.harvard.edu/F/HCCTA7AH7433PDVC1Y6QANPBKU1F5JYLY7IRBHSCNKSPS64YBR-09575?func=full-set-set&set_number=632848&set_entry=000002&format=999

Author : LinkYglesias, Matthew. Title : LinkTruth, justice, and the political way / a thesis presented by Matthew Yglesias. Published : 2003. Locations/Orders : Availability Location : Harvard Archives HU 92.2003.336 Library Info Description : iv, 69 leaves ; 29 cm. Notes : Thesis (A.B., Honors in Philosophy)--Harvard University, 2003. Notes : Includes bibliographical references (leaves 66-69). Subject : LinkRawls, John, 1921- Political liberalism. Subject : LinkLiberalism. HOLLIS Number : 009503127

Firstly, this is All Matt's Fault for revealing that the birth certificate people are down to speculating that the Obama campaign lured them into months of pointless and politically undamaging "research" about nothing. So now the black helicopter crowd must turn to the senior thesis.

Noam is rightly derided by the talkbackers for thinking there's anything to this. And, Matt, you're young enough to reasonably remember your senior thesis; Obama is 46 and was writing it way, way, way before laptops. For comparison, after I read my husband some choice quotes from the various ballyhoos:

My husband and I are both 40. We're pretty sure we didn't write senior theses, though would not bet any of our children on it. If we had, any physical evidence would have been left behind many moves ago. For any major that involves a lot of paper writing (as opposed to, say, engineering) remembering which paper was your thesis 25 years later seems excessive; any insight to be gleaned into my policy positions would, as Matt points out, better be applied to my actual policy positions this year, and public record in the past decade.

When I was in grade school I wrote an absolutely, horribly, awfully written story that was based on a stupid TV show. This means I cannot be preznit. Darn.

Is the RNC so cash-strapped on oppo research that right-wing media must do actual legwork rather than wait to be fed the limo-liberal juicy bits?

My guess re: Matt's senior thesis is that he has experienced something that is probably pretty common among twenty-somethings - we save a lot of stuff on our computers, but when we switch computers or the old one dies, sometimes stuff is lost. I have lost years of email because of hard drive failures (which has led me to switch to using only IMAP mail, where everything is kept on the server). I lost about a year's worth of law school papers and notes (and more emails) when my laptop was stolen. If I hadn't been careful at a couple of key points, I would have lost a lot more (including my own BA project). My guess is that Matt probably has it somewhere (like on the hard drive of an old computer he hasn't used in years), but that digging it out would take some real work.

That said, I agree that I would not want anyone judging me on things I wrote in college. I'm sure some of it would stand up okay, but I guarantee I wrote some drivel in my core courses. With our current crazed political climate, it is almost cruel to ask students to write a paper on Adam Smith and Karl Marx - whatever you say, half the electorate would hate you when it turns up during your election for the local mosquito abatement district.

Not only is Matthews Hall a freshman dorm, but it's at Harvard, whereas the rest of the post is about the time Obama spent at Columbia. In terms Matt can understand, it's the equivalent of posting a pic of Madison Square Garden above a post on the Lakers. Baffling.

And, speaking of baffling, we have Noam's post on the thesis itself. As the original item - followed backwards through three links - makes perfectly clear, we're not actually talking about a thesis. Before 1993, the PoliSci department didn't offer the option of writing a thesis. Instead, qualified PoliSci majors were allowed to enroll in one of two year-long honors seminars, during which they produced a major research paper. It was a quirk of Columbia's system, and like many such quirks, graduates and faculty alike often use a simpler shorthand rather than get bogged down in a lengthy explanation. But unlike a thesis - a paper which is awarded course credit and permanently deposited - the honors seminars require only an extra-long course paper.

That may seem pedantic, but given the supposed controversy, it's worth noting. Matt writes that "all copies [of the thesis] have apparently gone missing from Columbia." That's a deeply deceptive formulation. In fact, there never were any copies deposited at Columbia! What was never there cannot possibly go missing.

This is very simple. Obama wrote a paper - a very long paper - during his senior year, for a course he was taking. He handed it in at the end of the semester. The professor assigned it a grade, and hung on to it. That's not unusual - in the mad rush toward graduation, most papers handed in at the end of the second semester are never actually returned. Eight years ago, the professor cleaned out his files during a move, and discarded it. And Obama, writing before wordprocessors were common, either didn't make a second copy for himself, or more likely, got rid of it along with all of his other course papers. How many of you, over the age of 40, still have course papers from college?

The point that Matt seems to miss is that viewing his thesis, no matter how old and dated, allows us to determine just how Obama has grown since it was written.

This week, we were treated to the spectacle of Obama showing that he managed to learn nothing from his two year old position on the “surge.” This after hours and hours of Congressional denunciations of the current POTUS that he has learned nothing.

Meanwhile, McCain has a clear record of changing when the facts change.

It's a stone cold certainty that a senior thesis written at Columbia in 1983 on a political topic will include phrases and ideas that, 25 years later, can be made to sound unacceptably radical.

it was obvious long ago that Yglesias no longer believes in truth or justice

No need to bag on Perm in #1 above- it's not a tourist destination but it's a pretty big city (more than a million people, if I recall) and hosts a large philosophy conference I took part in once every year. I pretty decent place. (Cold, though.)

And Perm is the home of Tchaikovsky's original ballet company too! Great dancers, all the talent and expertise of the Bolshoi without the attitude.

IMHO (never having been there) the most interesting thing about Perm' is how much the outline of the city (e.g. on a map) resembles the shape of Europe as a whole -- it's like a mini-Europe (shape-wise) at the east end of Europe ...

Damn. I 've just been thinking of all the hundreds--no, thousands--of student papers I've tossed into the recycling bin over the last 20 years.

If one of those students ever runs for office, I probably could have funded my retirement by selling his/her Freshman Comp paper on whether gays should be allowed to marry or the 10 Commandments should be posted in public spaces to some wingnut "journalist."

Obama was accepted at Harvard Law not long after writing that senior thesis. I'm gonna bet it's pretty long, boring, and extremely well written. Not exactly fertile ground for controversy.

Wouldn't it be just as important for the press to gather and report on the things John McCain said when he was in Hanoi?

You know, just for the historical record...

These guys obviously have no idea how universities work.

Do they think Obama's senior advisor kept a copy? I certainly don't keep any papers from my students. Who has the room? Besides, it must have been a quarter century since Obama was at Columbia. I'm guessing his advisor has long since retired. And if he or she did save it, there's no way it could be found in the heaps and stacks of junk in most prof's offices.

So, how about the department office? The department secretary from the institution where I got my PhD emailed me a few months ago informing me that since they had done some remodeling that they no longer had room to store dissertations. She told me I could come get mine if I wished. And that's a DISSERTATION not an undergraduate paper.

But I do hope the thesis surfaces. It will give Atlas Shrugged and the PUMAs something to do for the rest of the summer, checking the kerning and arguing about fonts.

heck, my senior thesis said stuff i didn't believe *at the time.* i was trying to get an A, not convince anyone of any particular argument. and so i, like i'm sure most thesis writers, considered more carefully what the views and personal preferences for various arguments were for the person who would be grading it rather than my own views on that particular topic.

Can I juts chime in that there are different degrees of relevance....especially when gauging someone's past....and alot of what we are seeing now is a desperate attempt to equivocate non issues with relevant ones. So.....thesis papers by a young person decades ago that don't reflect current events is quite different that a rich young man vigorously defending the Vietnam War when he knows he will never ever have to fight it (and then later lies about avoiding it).....are quite different. Much like a person that has dabbled in drugs in their past.....as opposed to someone who dabbled with drugs in the past - refuses to admit it.....and vigorously promotes draconian drugs laws against even the smallest youthful indiscretions of others when they are in a position of power.

heck, my senior thesis said stuff i didn't believe *at the time.* i was trying to get an A, not convince anyone of any particular argument. and so i, like i'm sure most thesis writers, considered more carefully what the views and personal preferences for various arguments were for the person who would be grading it rather than my own views on that particular topic.

I agree with Mr. Scheiber. To better know what Ronald Reagan was thinking as President, we should look back to Eureka College, and look at his papers from economics and sociology classes.

Wow, I can't believe all the Fool-Aid drinkers on this blog!!
Your Messiah is a fraud and somebody, somewhere needs to finally do some vetting of this loser before it is too late!!
I especially love how Obama-bots label anybody a "racist" if you have anything negative to say about the new "Jim Jones" but can't give you a valid reason to vote for the guy except "he gives a great speech!! So inspirational!"

Idiots and their leader!!

Obama/YourMama!!

Wow, I can't believe all the Fool-Aid drinkers on this blog!!
Your Messiah is a fraud and somebody, somewhere needs to finally do some vetting of this loser before it is too late!!
I especially love how Obama-bots label anybody a "racist" if you have anything negative to say about the new "Jim Jones" but can't give you a valid reason to vote for the guy except "he gives a great speech!! So inspirational!"

Idiots and their leader!!

Obama/YourMama!!

sen obama's senior thesis has most likely been ghost written by whoever was handy at the time. it doesn't matter where it is or what it says...good luck getting it. it's a bit like: "where's the real birth certificate" query that has been nicely swept under a very lumpy rug with the rest of mr obama's true background and track record.

oh well.....nothing new or different in the obama camp tactics here.

too many steves, i think we've found the point of differentiation.

if i'm writing a scholarly biography of someone, then i want to know all there is to know (and then some).

if i'm a journalist (at least in my estimation) not so much: i'm not looking for "insights," i'm looking for "leads" and "hooks" and similar matters.

I don't even know that most people necessarily believe what they write in their thesis at the time they are writing it. It is foolish to ignore expectations of those professors advising you through the process.

Does anyone see the thesis product as a manifesto distilling their personal beliefs on the topic? Isn't it just a project demonstrating (presumably) deep mastery of some knowledge in your field and the ability to execute in a sufficiently academic manner?

The far right is so pathetic these days. Let 'em waste their time and resources...

I don't get it. Wouldn't it be a pretty interesting conversation to discuss your views in college on Rawls versus your views now and what's changed since then? What have you learned, what shifted your opinions?

Considering the topic of Obama's thesis, I think this is very relevant to the campaign and I'm looking forward to reading about it (as long as the reporting is done well... a big if).

I graduated from Columbia College in 1981. While I was there, college students did not do senior theses. Students did not have the option. Conversely, Barnard students did do senoir theses: in fact, I believe in many disciplines Barnard required them to graduate.

I graduated from Columbia College in 1981. While I was there, college students did not do senior theses. Students did not have the option. Conversely, Barnard students did do senoir theses: in fact, I believe in many disciplines Barnard required them to graduate.

I graduated from Columbia College in 1981. While I was there, college students did not do senior theses. Students did not have the option. Conversely, Barnard students did do senoir theses: in fact, I believe in many disciplines Barnard required them to graduate.

I haven't bothered to read this thread, so I'm sure someone else has said this, but:

If you're looking for something to make sure Obama doesn't become President, who knows? Maybe that old college paper will be just the ticket to "prove" that he's a "whitey-hating Black Muslim Communist homo terrorist."

In other words, the whole point of this sort of back-tracking is to find something to smear somebody with, nothing more.

That's one reason I TELL people I spent eight years in the Federal pen for armed bank robbery. I don't give a shit - and I don't want anybody being surprised by it later. Deal with it. And if you can't, then fuck you. Better I know up front whether you can deal with current reality rather than your own imaginings.

I gotta think that most of the people like "mm" who see a conspiracy here, never even attended college and don't have the any idea what they''re talking about in the first place.

I am two years older than Obama, which means we attended school at roughly the same time. Where I went to school (U. of Texas), there WAS no requirement to write a senior thesis. The assumption that this is something required by all schools is nonsense, and just shows how little those making an issue of the matter have bothered to research.

In the second place, when Obama graduated (I would assume 1983 if he was two years behind me), personal computers were still in their infancy. The notion that. like today, most students had a PC in which they could store all of their information, is ridiculous. The few papers I still have from college are just that - papers; old and yellowing and slowly turning to dust. Of course, it seems that few people today are self-aware enough to realize that their reality is neither universal nor timeless. That sort of self-absorption is the hallmark of most of the conservatives I meet.

Matt writes:

"but when you're talking about public officials the odds are that the most important information about their character and their policies is going to be the stuff that's already a matter of public record."

Kind of like how Bush's speeches in 2000 about wanting a "humble foreign policy" that eschewed nation-building turned out to be a better guide to his Presidency than his private 1999 conversation with his ghostwriter Mickey Herskowitz about the political advantages of invading Iraq?

By the way, Gabriel Sherman's article "End of the Affair" in The New Republic recounts a lot of gripes reporters have with the arrogance and secrecy of the Obama campaign. Most of it is the usual dull whining, but this is interesting:

"Reporters who have covered Obama's biography or his problems with certain voter blocs have been challenged the most aggressively. "They're terrified of people poking around Obama's life," one reporter says. "The whole Obama narrative is built around this narrative that Obama and David Axelrod built, and, like all stories, it's not entirely true. So they have to be protective of the crown jewels." Another reporter notes that, during the last year, Obama's old friends and Harvard classmates were requested not to talk to the press without permission."

Better late than never, I suppose ...

Obama's senior thesis seems like a document worth checking out. Maybe it says something staggeringly stupid, and conservatives can say "aha! this is dumb! we shouldn't elect this guy!" Alternatively, it might say smart things that, being smart, could be used jujitsu-style as arguments against Obama's current positions on arms control and diplomacy. Or, perhaps it is shockingly dull - banal, even - and can be used to bolster attacks on Obama as an empty suit who spouts meaningless rhetoric. Who knows, it may even be plagiarized!

Better late than never, I suppose ...

Luanne, just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talking.

The funniest part of this is that the one thing we know about Obama's thesis/paper is that it's about negotiations between superpowers during the cold war. For the last several years, neocons, Steve Sailer, and Islamophobes have been arguing that all of that stuff is irrelevant, because everything changed on September 11th, dontcha know. It's a new world of asymmetric warfare and leaderless cells, or so I have been told.

So why should they give a crap about what Obama wrote about Paul Nitze, Yuli Kvitsinsky, and the walk in the woods? (I had to google for Kvitsinsky's name because I didn't even remember it, just like I've forgotten where I stashed that copy of Obama's Party card.)


Comments closed August 08, 2008.

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