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War for War's Sake

15 Jul 2008 01:13 pm

225px-President_Theodore_Roosevelt%2C_1904.jpg

Reviewing Eric Patterson's Just War Thinking over the weekend, Robert Farley said:

Of course, the reasons for the presumption against war are fairly obvious. War has always been a destructive activity, and has become more so in the modern world. It is hardly pacifist to say that accomplishing a goal through peaceful means is preferable to accomplishing goals through war; as James Fearon notes, war always has ex ante costs. This is not to say that good things can't be accomplished through war, but accomplishing such things by war will always be more costly than achieving them by negotiation. As such, unless one assigns a positive value to the fighting of war, negotiation will always be the preferred course for a rational actor, until it is clear that these efforts will fail. The only way around this is to assign a positive value to the fighting of war, and this is something that democratic societies don't do; indeed, Patterson doesn't bother to make the argument that war, in and of itself, has positive value.

But just because modern democratic societies don't, usually, attach a positive value to war-fighting as such doesn't mean that nobody does. As I observed of John McCain and his hero Teddy Roosevelt:

Perhaps most disturbingly of all, McCain appears to be grounded not only in dangerous ideas about international relations but also in an active hostility to prudence. In David Brooks’ 1999 McCain-lauding essay, “Politics and Patriotism: From Teddy Roosevelt to John McCain,” Brooks writes that McCain and others worry “that we have become a nation obsessed with risk avoidance and safety.” The cure? To follow Roosevelt who “saw foreign-policy activism and patriotism as remedies for cultural threats he perceived at home.” De-euphemized, Roosevelt saw war as a positive good; in his years as New York City Police Commissioner he yearned for a now-obscure 1895 border dispute between Venezuela and the British colony of Guiana to turn into a great power conflict. “Let the fight come if it must,” Roosevelt wrote to Sen. Henry Cabot Lodge. “I don’t care whether our sea-coast cities are bombarded or not; we would take Canada … the clamor of the peace faction has convinced me that this country needs a war.” Only three months later Roosevelt mused that “it is very difficult for me not to wish a war with Spain, for such a war would result at once in getting a proper Navy.” The indifference to questions of national strategy here is a bit frightening, but to Brooks’ way of thinking, it’s a small price to pay to combat cultural threats at home.

And here's Corey Robin reporting on conversations with Irving Kristol and William Buckley in 2000:

"The trouble with the emphasis in conservatism on the market," Buckley told me, "is that it becomes rather boring. You hear it once, you master the idea. The notion of devoting your life to it is horrifying if only because it's so repetitious. It's like sex." Conservatism, Kristol complained, "is so influenced by business culture and by business modes of thinking that it lacks any political imagination, which has always been, I have to say, a property of the Left." Kristol confessed to a deep yearning for an American empire: "What's the point of being the greatest, most powerful nation in the world and not having an imperial role? It's unheard of in human history. The most powerful nation always had an imperial role." But, he continued, previous empires were not "capitalist democracies with a strong emphasis on economic growth and economic prosperity." Because of its commitment to the free market, the United States lacked the fortitude and vision to wield imperial power. "It's too bad," Kristol lamented. "I think it would be natural for the United States . . . to play a far more dominant role in world affairs. Not what we're doing now but to command and to give orders as to what is to be done. People need that. There are many parts of the world—Africa in particular—where an authority willing to use troops can make a very good difference, a healthy difference." But with public discussion dominated by accountants—"there's the Republican Party tying itself into knots. Over what? Prescriptions for elderly people? Who gives a damn? I think it's disgusting that . . . presidential politics of the most important country in the world should revolve around prescriptions for elderly people. Future historians will find this very hard to believe. It's not Athens. It's not Rome. It's not anything." Kristol thought it unlikely that the United States would take its rightful place as the successor to empires past.

This is, needless to say, a dangerous attitude for people to have. But it seems to have some non-trivial sway on the right.

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Comments (59)

So they're confessing that the motive for empire is, at its root, the boredom of very wealthy people.

I wonder how the statesmen of Athens and Rome would have responded to that virtuous notion?


Money quote:

"It is horrifying if only because it's so repetitious. It's like sex."

Where do these war-thirsty impulses come from? It's a mystery...

Wow, that doesn't look like Teddy to me somehow. In his usual pics he tends to look more nerdy and less tough than that.

I guess he changed as he got a little older, as we all do.

Note to William 'The Bloody' Kristol:

Imperial Rome spent as much as 1/3 of its budget on grain for the poor.

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the face of modern conservatism. Picture an American boot stomping on a foreigner's face, forever.

That's some vision you have there for 'the shining city on the hill', Mr Bloody Kristol.

You hear it once, you master the idea. The notion of devoting your life to it is horrifying if only because it's so repetitious. It's like sex." --William F. Buckley

Well then ... that explains a lot.

Prescriptions for elderly people? Who gives a damn? --Kristol Sr.

So ... the acquisition of power by a select few -- and then asserting that power on a whim -- is more important than building a decent society that takes care of its citizens.

Interesting. Sounds to me like a perfect summation of Neoconservative ideology.

shorter Kristol: let them eat cake.

Late 18th-century France had a very effective way of dealing with out-of-touch elitists. Just saying.

Well, the least you can say about TR is that he actually practiced what he preached, and was enormously enthusiastic about actually fighting in a war as well as instigating one.

By contrast, I seem to vaguely recall that Brooks is very short but enormously fat, so fat that he would probably require three combined horses to bear him into battle. Virtually all of the other bloodthirsty neocons are equally "unheroic" in physical appearance, and none have every worn an (American) military uniform.

Being bloodthirsty carries fewer risks if your own blood is always kept far, far away from the battlefield.

This is, needless to say, a dangerous attitude for people to have

Well that's a nice way to say it, I would classify it as genocidal lunacy, not too far removed from what the Nazis believed.

Matt please please please do a post on this piece of hard hitting journalism:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/07/15/bio.tech/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

[he] enormously enthusiastic about actually fighting in a war as well as instigating one.

I believe this attitude lasted right up to the exact moment before his son was killed in WWI. He became much less of a loud cheerleader for war right after that.

The neocons didn't just impose themselves; they attained power by tapping a deep vein of this ugliness in the American psyche. There are days when I think only complete national humiliation, a la 1945 Germany and Japan, will ever set us on a saner course.

Of course those of us who say such things could never ever run for office. ;)

In fairness to TR, he was expressing those antiquated, pro-war sentiments before the brutal nature of modern warfare became so glaringly obvious in WWI. Would he have expressed the same beliefs in the 1920s (had he lived that long)?

As for McCain, well, there's really no possible excuse for his glibly hawkish views.

Imperial Rome spent as much as 1/3 of its budget on grain for the poor.

Imaginary empires, imaginary conservatism.

Still waiting for that smaller government they're always talking about. Republican presidents and Congresses never seem to get around to it.

Should we remind them?
.

I would classify it as genocidal lunacy

Second that. Why is it that if I walk down the street advocating violence for it's own sake, I might get locked up, but a newspape columnist can do so on a national scale?

I hate these sorts of discussions, because I don't think they're entirely fair to Roosevelt. Yeah, he was a warmonger and an imperialist. But in that he was a product of his time. I don't think that excuses it, but it does provide a context. War was still thought of as somewhat romantic then, even if the reality was much more hideous than that. (The great secret about wars, according to Paul Fussell, is that the majority of the casualties come from flying body parts.)

But in this day and age, we have no such illusion, no such excuse. We cannot pretend that war is anything other than brutal and ugly and cruel, no matter how admirable its nominal justification may be. Theodore Roosevelt had not seen the consequences of his philosophy. But we have. The only people who haven't are those who know they cannot affort to look at this truth, or any other.

Does anyone else get the impression that Kristol and Buckley were deeply insecure with their masculinity?

TR's bloodlust (and that is not an exaggeration) was cured by the death of his son Quentin in the first World War. TR was crushed by this and died himself six months later.

I hope this is a lesson McCain doesn't have to learn the hard way.

Does anyone else get the impression that Kristol and Buckley were deeply insecure with their masculinity?

I thought I had read nearly all of Kristol's very scary musings on empire. Apparently not. This quote also serves to reinforce the idea that conservatism really is a fraudulent political ideology, that serves only the wealthy in their efforts to garner more wealth. And power. And other countries, it would seem.

His comment on Africa could have been made by Cecil fucking Rhodes.

... serves to reinforce the idea that conservatism really is a fraudulent political ideology, that serves only the wealthy in their efforts to garner more wealth ...

In our system of legal bribery: the wealth to buy more laws that help you to accumulate wealth.

Kick a few gays and Mexicans around, in order to distract the hicks, but that's about it.
.

Buckley really isn't saying something similar to Kristol's point. Kristol is actively lamenting that the United States isn't more martial, because the alternative is entirely too pedestrian. Buckely is observing that human beings cosntantly are in search of new and novel experiences, and thus it is difficult for even those of a conservative disposition to be satisfied with merely preserving market liberties. One might say that Kristol's expressed preferences proves Buckley's point.

You know, it was only about 2,000 years ago that people figured out that war and empire abroad are a threat to freedom at home.

Anyway, if you're reading comments on this post you'd probably like this book:

http://press.princeton.edu/titles/8304.html

Note to William 'The Bloody' Kristol:

Imperial Rome spent as much as 1/3 of its budget on grain for the poor.

Posted by r€nato

Unfortunately, Kristol the Lesser would from this conclude that Rome spent too much on the people at home and too little on the Empire.

Face the facts - the US has always been a warmongering nation. The following is a compilation of US military interventions since 1960 - for a full list see

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Wars

1960-1969

1959-60 -- The Caribbean. Second Marine Ground Task Force was deployed to protect US nationals following the Cuban revolution.[RL30172]

1962 -- Thailand. The Third Marine Expeditionary Unit landed on May 17, 1962 to support that country during the threat of Communist pressure from outside; by July 30, the 5,000 marines had been withdrawn.[RL30172]

1962 -- Cuba. Cuban Missile Crisis On October 22, President Kennedy instituted a "quarantine" on the shipment of offensive missiles to Cuba from the Soviet Union. He also warned Soviet Union that the launching of any missile from Cuba against nations in the Western Hemisphere would bring about US nuclear retaliation on the Soviet Union. A negotiated settlement was achieved in a few days.[RL30172]

1962-75 -- Laos. From October 1962 until 1975, the United States played an important role in military support of anti-Communist forces in Laos.[RL30172]

1964 -- Congo (Zaire). The United States sent four transport planes to provide airlift for Congolese troops during a rebellion and to transport Belgian paratroopers to rescue foreigners.[RL30172]

1959-75 -- Vietnam War. US military advisers had been in South Vietnam for a decade, and their numbers had been increased as the military position of the Saigon government became weaker. After citing what he termed were attacks on US destroyers in the Tonkin Gulf, President Johnson asked in August 1964 for a resolution expressing US determination to support freedom and protect peace in Southeast Asia. Congress responded with the Tonkin Gulf Resolution, expressing support for "all necessary measures" the President might take to repel armed attacks against US forces and prevent further aggression. Following this resolution, and following a Communist attack on a US installation in central Vietnam, the United States escalated its participation in the war to a peak of 543,000 military personnel by April 1969.[RL30172]

1965 -- Dominican Republic. Invasion of Dominican Republic The United States intervened to protect lives and property during a Dominican revolt and sent 20,000 US troops as fears grew that the revolutionary forces were coming increasingly under Communist control.[RL30172]

1967 -- Congo (Zaire). The United States sent three military transport aircraft with crews to provide the Congo central government with logistical support during a revolt.[RL30172]

1968 -- Laos & Cambodia. U.S. starts secret bombing campaign against targets along the Ho Chi Minh trail in the sovereign nations of Cambodia and Laos. The bombings last at least two years. (See Operation Commando Hunt)

[edit] 1970-1979

1970 -- Cambodia. US troops were ordered into Cambodia to clean out Communist sanctuaries from which Viet Cong and North Vietnamese attacked US and South Vietnamese forces in Vietnam. The object of this attack, which lasted from April 30 to June 30, was to ensure the continuing safe withdrawal of American forces from South Vietnam and to assist the program of Vietnamization.[RL30172]

1973 -- Operation Nickel Grass, a strategic airlift operation conducted by the United States to deliver weapons and supplies to Israel during the Yom Kippur War.

1974 -- Evacuation from Cyprus. United States naval forces evacuated US civilians during hostilities between Turkish and Greek Cypriot forces.[RL30172]

1975 -- Evacuation from Vietnam. On April 3, 1975, President Ford reported US naval vessels, helicopters, and Marines had been sent to assist in evacuation of refugees and US nationals from Vietnam.[RL30172]

1975 -- Evacuation from Cambodia. On April 12, 1975, President Ford reported that he had ordered US military forces to proceed with the planned evacuation of US citizens from Cambodia.[RL30172]

1975 -- South Vietnam. On April 30 1975, President Ford reported that a force of 70 evacuation helicopters and 865 Marines had evacuated about 1,400 US citizens and 5,500 third country nationals and South Vietnamese from landing zones near the US Embassy in Saigon and the Tan Son Nhut Airfield.[RL30172]

1975 -- Cambodia. Mayagüez Incident. On May 15, 1975, President Ford reported he had ordered military forces to retake the SS Mayaguez, a merchant vessel which was seized from Cambodian naval patrol boats in international waters and forced to proceed to a nearby island.[RL30172]

1976 -- Lebanon. On July 22 and 23, 1974, helicopters from five US naval vessels evacuated approximately 250 Americans and Europeans from Lebanon during fighting between Lebanese factions after an overland convoy evacuation had been blocked by hostilities.[RL30172]

1976 -- Korea. Additional forces were sent to Korea after two American soldiers were killed by North Korean soldiers in the demilitarized zone between North and South Korea while cutting down a tree.[RL30172]

1978 -- Zaire (Congo). From May 19 through June 1978, the United States utilized military transport aircraft to provide logistical support to Belgian and French rescue operations in Zaire.[RL30172]

[edit] 1980-1990

1980 -- Iran. Operation Eagle Claw On April 26, 1980, President Carter reported the use of six US transport planes and eight helicopters in an unsuccessful attempt to rescue American hostages being held in Iran.[RL30172]

1981 -- El Salvador. After a guerrilla offensive against the government of El Salvador, additional US military advisers were sent to El Salvador, bringing the total to approximately 55, to assist in training government forces in counterinsurgency.[RL30172]

1981 --Libya. First Gulf of Sidra Incident On August 19, 1981, US planes based on the carrier USS Nimitz shot down two Libyan jets over the Gulf of Sidra after one of the Libyan jets had fired a heat-seeking missile. The United States periodically held freedom of navigation exercises in the Gulf of Sidra, claimed by Libya as territorial waters but considered international waters by the United States.[RL30172]

1982 -- Sinai. On March 19, 1982, President Reagan reported the deployment of military personnel and equipment to participate in the Multinational Force and Observers in the Sinai. Participation had been authorized by the Multinational Force and Observers Resolution, Public Law 97-132.[RL30172]

1982 -- Lebanon. Multinational Force in Lebanon On August 21, 1982, President Reagan reported the dispatch of 80 marines to serve in the multinational force to assist in the withdrawal of members of the Palestine Liberation force from Beirut. The Marines left September 20, 1982.[RL30172]

1982-1983 -- Lebanon. On September 29, 1982, President Reagan reported the deployment of 1200 marines to serve in a temporary multinational force to facilitate the restoration of Lebanese government sovereignty. On Sept. 29, 1983, Congress passed the Multinational Force in Lebanon Resolution (P.L. 98-119) authorizing the continued participation for eighteen months.[RL30172]

1983 -- Egypt. After a Libyan plane bombed a city in Sudan on March 18, 1983, and Sudan and Egypt appealed for assistance, the United States dispatched an AWACS electronic surveillance plane to Egypt.[RL30172]

1983 -- Grenada. Citing the increased threat of Soviet and Cuban influence and noting the development of an international airport following a bloodless Grenada coup d'etat and alignment with the Soviets and Cuba, the U.S. launches Operation Urgent Fury to invade the sovereign island nation of Grenada.[RL30172]

1983-89 -- Honduras. In July 1983 the United States undertook a series of exercises in Honduras that some believed might lead to conflict with Nicaragua. On March 25, 1986, unarmed US military helicopters and crewmen ferried Honduran troops to the Nicaraguan border to repel Nicaraguan troops.[RL30172]

1983 -- Chad. On August 8, 1983, President Reagan reported the deployment of two AWACS electronic surveillance planes and eight F-15 fighter planes and ground logistical support forces to assist Chad against Libyan and rebel forces.[RL30172]

1984 -- Persian Gulf. On June 5, 1984, Saudi Arabian jet fighter planes, aided by intelligence from a US AWACS electronic surveillance aircraft and fueled by a U.S. KC-10 tanker, shot down two Iranian fighter planes over an area of the Persian Gulf proclaimed as a protected zone for shipping.[RL30172]

1985 -- Italy. On October 10, 1985, US Navy pilots intercepted an Egyptian airliner and forced it to land in Sicily. The airliner was carrying the hijackers of the Italian cruise ship Achille Lauro who had killed an American citizen during the hijacking.[RL30172]

1986 -- Libya. Action in the Gulf of Sidra (1986) On March 26, 1986, President Reagan reported on March 24 and 25, US forces, while engaged in freedom of navigation exercises around the Gulf of Sidra, had been attacked by Libyan missiles and the United States had responded with missiles.[RL30172]

1986 -- Libya. Operation El Dorado Canyon On April 16, 1986, President Reagan reported that U.S. air and naval forces had conducted bombing strikes on terrorist facilities and military installations in the Libyan capitol of Tripoli, claiming that Libyan leader Col. Muammar al-Gaddafi was responsible for a bomb attack at a German disco that killed two U.S. soldiers.[RL30172]

1986 -- Bolivia. U.S. Army personnel and aircraft assisted Bolivia in anti-drug operations.[RL30172]

1987-88 -- Persian Gulf. After the Iran-Iraq War resulted in several military incidents in the Persian Gulf, the United States increased US joint military forces operations in the Persian Gulf and adopted a policy of reflagging and escorting Kuwaiti oil tankers through the Gulf, called Operation Earnest Will. President Reagan reported that US ships had been fired upon or struck mines or taken other military action on September 21 (Iran Ajr), October 8, and October 19, 1987 and April 18 (Operation Praying Mantis), July 3, and July 14, 1988. The United States gradually reduced its forces after a cease-fire between Iran and Iraq on August 20, 1988.[RL30172] It was the largest naval convoy operation since World War II.[3]

1987-88 -- Operation Earnest Will was the U.S. military protection of Kuwaiti oil tankers from Iraqi and Iranian attacks in 1987 and 1988 during the Tanker War phase of the Iran-Iraq War. It was the largest naval convoy operation since World War II.

1987-88 -- Operation Prime Chance was a United States Special Operations Command operation intended to protect U.S. -flagged oil tankers from Iranian attack during the Iran-Iraq War. The operation took place roughly at the same time as Operation Earnest Will.

1988 -- Operation Praying Mantis was the April 18, 1988 action waged by U.S. naval forces in retaliation for the Iranian mining of the Persian Gulf and the subsequent damage to an American warship.

1988 -- Operation Golden Pheasant was an emergency deployment of U.S. troops to Honduras in 1988, as a result of threatening actions by the forces of the (then socialist) Nicaraguans.

1988 -- USS Vincennes shoot down of Iran Air Flight 655

1988 -- Panama. In mid-March and April 1988, during a period of instability in Panama and as the United States increased pressure on Panamanian head of state General Manuel Noriega to resign, the United States sent 1,000 troops to Panama, to "further safeguard the canal, US lives, property and interests in the area." The forces supplemented 10,000 US military personnel already in the Panama Canal Zone.[RL30172]

1989 -- Libya. Second Gulf of Sidra Incident On January 4, 1989, two US Navy F-14 aircraft based on the USS John F. Kennedy shot down two Libyan jet fighters over the Mediterranean Sea about 70 miles north of Libya. The US pilots said the Libyan planes had demonstrated hostile intentions.[RL30172]

1989 -- Panama. On May 11, 1989, in response to General Noriega's disregard of the results of the Panamanian election, President Bush ordered a brigade-sized force of approximately 1,900 troops to augment the estimated 11,000 U.S. forces already in the area.[RL30172]

1989 -- Colombia, Bolivia, and Peru. Andean Initiative in War on Drugs. On September 15, 1989, President Bush announced that military and law enforcement assistance would be sent to help the Andean nations of Colombia, Bolivia, and Peru combat illicit drug producers and traffickers. By mid-September there were 50-100 US military advisers in Colombia in connection with transport and training in the use of military equipment, plus seven Special Forces teams of 2-12 persons to train troops in the three countries.[RL30172]

1989 -- Philippines. On December 2, 1989, President Bush reported that on December 1 US fighter planes from Clark Air Base in the Philippines had assisted the Aquino government to repel a coup attempt. In addition, 100 marines were sent from the US Navy base at Subic Bay to protect the US Embassy in Manila.[RL30172]

1989-90 -- Panama. Operation Just Cause On December 21, 1989, President Bush reported that he had ordered US military forces to Panama to protect the lives of American citizens and bring General Noriega to justice. By February 13, 1990, all the invasion forces had been withdrawn.[RL30172] Around 200 Panamanian civilians were reported killed. The Panamanian head of state, General Manuel Noriega, is captured and brought to the U.S.

1990 -- Liberia. On August 6, 1990, President Bush reported that a reinforced rifle company had been sent to provide additional security to the US Embassy in Monrovia, and that helicopter teams had evacuated US citizens from Liberia.[RL30172]

1990 -- Saudi Arabia. On August 9, 1990, President Bush reported that he had ordered the forward deployment of substantial elements of the US armed forces into the Persian Gulf region to help defend Saudi Arabia after the August 2 invasion of Kuwait by Iraq. On November 16, 1990, he reported the continued buildup of the forces to ensure an adequate offensive military option.[RL30172]

[edit] 1991-1999

1991 -- Iraq. Persian Gulf War On January 16 America attacked Iraqi forces and military targets in Iraq and Kuwait, in conjunction with a coalition of allies and UN Security Council resolutions. Combat operations ended on February 28, 1991. (See Operation Desert Shield and Operation Desert Storm)[RL30172]

1991 -- Iraq. On May 17, 1991, President Bush stated that the Iraqi repression of the Kurdish people had necessitated a limited introduction of US forces into northern Iraq for emergency relief purposes.[RL30172]

1991 -- Zaire. On September 25-27, 1991, after widespread looting and rioting broke out in Kinshasa, US Air Force C-141s transported 100 Belgian troops and equipment into Kinshasa. US planes also carried 300 French troops into the Central African Republic and hauled evacuated American citizens.[RL30172]

1991-96 -- Operation Provide Comfort. Delivery of humanitarian relief and military protection for Kurds fleeing their homes in northern Iraq, by a small Allied ground force based in Turkey.

1992 -- Sierra Leone. On May 3, 1992, US military planes evacuated Americans from Sierra Leone, where military leaders had overthrown the government.[RL30172]

1992-1996 -- Operation Provide Promise was a humanitarian relief operation in Bosnia and Herzegovina during the Yugoslav Wars, from July 2, 1992, to January 9, 1996, which made it the longest running humanitarian airlift in history.[4]

1992 -- Kuwait. On August 3, 1992, the United States began a series of military exercises in Kuwait, following Iraqi refusal to recognize a new border drawn up by the United Nations and refusal to cooperate with UN inspection teams.[RL30172]

1992-2003 -- Iraq. Iraqi No-Fly Zones The U.S. together with the United Kingdom declares and enforces "no fly zones" over the majority of sovereign Iraqi airspace, prohibiting Iraqi flights in zones in southern Iraq and northern Iraq, and conducting aerial reconnaissance and bombings. (See also Operation Southern Watch) [RL30172] 1992-95 -- Somalia. "Operation Restore Hope" Somali Civil War On December 10, 1992, President Bush reported that he had deployed US armed forces to Somalia in response to a humanitarian crisis and a UN Security Council Resolution. The operation came to an end on May 4, 1993. US forces continued to participate in the successor United Nations Operation in Somalia (UNOSOM II). (See also Battle of Mogadishu)[RL30172]

1993-Present -- Bosnia-Herzegovina.

1993 -- Macedonia. On July 9, 1993, President Clinton reported the deployment of 350 US soldiers to the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia to participate in the UN Protection Force to help maintain stability in the area of former Yugoslavia.[RL30172]

1993-95 -- Haiti. Operation Uphold Democracy US ships had begun embargo against Haiti. Up to 20,000 US military troops were later deployed to Haiti.[RL30172]

1994 -- Macedonia. On April 19, 1994, President Clinton reported that the US contingent in the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia had been increased by a reinforced company of 200 personnel.[RL30172]

1995 -- Bosnia. NATO bombing of Bosnian Serbs.[RL30172] (See Operation Deliberate Force)

1996 -- Liberia. On April 11, 1996, President Clinton reported that on April 9, 1996 due to the "deterioration of the security situation and the resulting threat to American citizens" in Liberia he had ordered US military forces to evacuate from that country "private US citizens and certain third-country nationals who had taken refuge in the US Embassy compound...."[RL30172]

1996 -- Central African Republic. On May 23, 1996, President Clinton reported the deployment of US military personnel to Bangui, Central African Republic, to conduct the evacuation from that country of "private US citizens and certain U.S. Government employees," and to provide "enhanced security for the American Embassy in Bangui."[RL30172]

1997 -- Albania. On March 13, 1997, US military forces were used to evacuate certain U.S. Government employees and private US citizens from Tirana, Albania. (See also Operation Silver Wake)[RL30172]

1997 -- Congo and Gabon. On March 27, 1997, President Clinton reported on March 25, 1997, a standby evacuation force of US military personnel had been deployed to Congo and Gabon to provide enhanced security and to be available for any necessary evacuation operation.[RL30172]

1997 -- Sierra Leone. On May 29 and May 30, 1997, US military personnel were deployed to Freetown, Sierra Leone, to prepare for and undertake the evacuation of certain US government employees and private US citizens.[RL30172]

1997 -- Cambodia. On July 11, 1997, In an effort to ensure the security of American citizens in Cambodia during a period of domestic conflict there, a Task Force of about 550 US military personnel were deployed at Utapao Air Base in Thailand for possible evacuations. [RL30172]

1998 -- Iraq. US-led bombing campaign against Iraq.[RL30172] (See Operation Desert Fox)

1998 -- Guinea-Bissau. On June 10, 1998, in response to an army mutiny in Guinea-Bissau endangering the US Embassy, President Clinton deployed a standby evacuation force of US military personnel to Dakar, Senegal, to evacuate from the city of Bissau.[RL30172]

1998 - 1999 Kenya and Tanzania. US military personnel were deployed to Nairobi, Kenya, to coordinate the medical and disaster assistance related to the bombings of the U.S. Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. [RL30172]

1998 -- Afghanistan and Sudan. Operation Infinite Reach On August 20th, air strikes were used against two suspected terrorist training camps in Afghanistan and a suspected chemical factory in Sudan.[RL30172]

1998 -- Liberia. On September 27, 1998 America deployed a stand-by response and evacuation force of 30 US military personnel to increase the security force at the US Embassy in Monrovia.[RL30172]

1999 - 2001 East Timor. East Timor Independence Limited number of US military forces deployed with UN to restore peace to East Timor.[RL30172]

1999 -- NATO's bombing of Serbia in the Kosovo Conflict.[RL30172] (See Operation Allied Force)

[edit] 2000- present

2000 -- Sierra Leone. On May 12, 2000 a US Navy patrol craft deployed to Sierra Leone to support evacuation operations from that country if needed.[RL30172]

2000 -- Yemen. On October 12, 2000, after the USS Cole attack in the port of Aden, Yemen, military personnel were deployed to Aden.[RL30172]

2000 -- East Timor. On February 25, 2000, a small number of U.S. military personnel were deployed to support of the United Nations Transitional Administration in East Timor (UNTAET). [RL30172]

2001 -- Afghanistan. US invasion of Afghanistan. The War on Terrorism begins with Operation Enduring Freedom. On October 7, 2001, US Armed Forces "began combat action in Afghanistan against Al Qaida terrorists and their Taliban supporters."[RL30172]

2002 -- Yemen. On November 3, 2002, an American MQ-1 Predator fired a Hellfire missile at a car in Yemen killing Qaed Senyan al-Harthi, an al-Qaeda leader thought to be responsible for the USS Cole bombing.[RL30172]

2002 -- Philippines. January 2002 U.S. "combat-equipped and combat support forces" have been deployed to the Philippines to train with, assist and advise the Philippines' Armed Forces in enhancing their "counterterrorist capabilities."[RL30172]

2002 -- Cote d'Ivoire. On September 25, 2002, in response to a rebellion in Cote d'Ivoire, US military personnel went into Cote d'Ivoire to assist in the evacuation of American citizens from Bouake.[5] [RL30172]

2003 -- 2003 invasion of Iraq Second Persian Gulf War. March 20, 2003. The United States leads a coalition that includes Britain, Australia and Spain to invade Iraq with the stated goal of eliminating Iraqi weapons of mass destruction.[RL30172]

2003 -- Liberia. Second Liberian Civil War On June 9, 2003, President Bush reported that on June 8 he had sent about 35 combat-equipped US military personnel into Monrovia, Liberia, to help secure the US Embassy in Nouakchott, Mauritania, and to aid in any necessary evacuation from either Liberia or Mauritania.[RL30172]

2003 -- Georgia and Djibouti "US combat equipped and support forces" had been deployed to Georgia and Djibouti to help in enhancing their "counterterrorist capabilities."[6]

2004 -- 2004 Haïti rebellion occurs. The US sent first sent 55 combat equipped military personnel to augment the US Embassy security forces there and to protect American citizens and property in light. Later 200 additional US combat-equipped, military personnel were sent to prepare the way for a UN Multinational Interim Force.[RL30172]

2004 -- War on Terrorism: US anti-terror related activities were underway in Georgia, Djibouti, Kenya, Ethiopia, Yemen, and Eritrea.[7]

2006 -- Pakistan. 17 people including known Al Qaeda bomb maker and chemical weapons expert Midhat Mursi, were killed in an American MQ-1 Predator airstrike on Damadola (Pakistan), near the Afghan border.[8][9]

2006 -- Lebanon. US Marine Detachment, the 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit[citation needed], begins evacuation of US citizens willing to the leave the country in the face of a likely ground invasion by Israel and continued fighting between Hezbollah and the Israeli military.[10][11]

2007 -- Somalia. Battle of Ras Kamboni. On January 8, 2007, while the conflict between the Islamic Courts Union and the Transitional Federal Government continues, an AC-130 gunship conducts an aerial strike on a suspected Al-Qaeda operative, along with other Islamist fighters, on Badmadow Island near Ras Kamboni in southern Somalia.[citation needed]

[edit]

Ironically, throughout history, the bored wealthy people who viewed war as recreation actually led their troops into the battle. Reinstitute that policy, and I'm fine with everything else Kristol says.

Apollo without Hobgoblin grows stale.

Our current corruption is testament to the need for keeping Hobgoblin on a much shorter leash. What's grimly comic is that the current crop of schmucks see themselves as chafing under an excess of Reason.


"Does anyone else get the impression that Kristol and Buckley were deeply insecure with their masculinity?

Posted by epar | July 15, 2008 1:53 PM"

Hey! No stealing my book idea!

"Kristol confessed to a deep yearning for an American empire: "What's the point of being the greatest, most powerful nation in the world and not having an imperial role? It's unheard of in human history. The most powerful nation always had an imperial role." But, he continued, previous empires were not "capitalist democracies with a strong emphasis on economic growth and economic prosperity." Because of its commitment to the free market, the United States lacked the fortitude and vision to wield imperial power."

What a moron. The US can be extremely powerful without being imperial. The thing about empires is that nobody likes them outside the metropolitan nation because all empires do is rob you of your wages, strip you of your dignity, get your loved ones raped and killed and help make demagogues among your people more popular. The more imperial the US gets, the more the US will just be another Gulliver tied down by a unified collection of smaller powers. The Soviet Empire didn't just collapse because Eastern Europeans rejected the Soviet part, but the Empire part as well. Kristol just wants his world revolution in honor of Trotsky, the modern world's first self-described terrorists.

This quote also serves to reinforce the idea that conservatism really is a fraudulent political ideology ...

At one time, I tried my best not to confuse conservatism with neoconservatism -- two very different beasts, IMHO.

At the current time, however, I'm not sure any real conservatives are actually left (those who truly advocate and legislate for less and less-intrusive government, etc.). The few that are close seem to be headed toward the Libertarian wing.

**shrugs shoulders**

"At the current time, however, I'm not sure any real conservatives are actually left (those who truly advocate and legislate for less and less-intrusive government, etc.). The few that are close seem to be headed toward the Libertarian wing."

And those conservatives that do actually stick to some idea of small government policies, Burkean high ideals, etc. seem to mostly be in academia, have PhD's, etc. which means that they are rejected as liberal elitists by the GOP mainstream. Or such American conservative thinkers (Zakaria, for instance) are Muslims and/or minorities, which also means they are to be rejected.

It's odd that prescriptions for the elderly are "boring" -as the elderly don't feel that way. In fact many things that affect my life don't seem boring at all - just boring to these tired, insecure old men.

I'm reminded of a Zen story, where a meditating student asked his master why they meditated on breathing, as breathing was so boring. His master demonstrated by holding his head under water, then asked how boring breathing seemed to him.

Peace, prosperity, good medical care . . . they don't seem boring to a lot of people.

It's odd that prescriptions for the elderly are "boring" -as the elderly don't feel that way. In fact many things that affect my life don't seem boring at all - just boring to these tired, insecure old men.

I'm reminded of a Zen story, where a meditating student asked his master why they meditated on breathing, as breathing was so boring. His master demonstrated by holding his head under water, then asked how boring breathing seemed to him.

Peace, prosperity, good medical care . . . they don't seem boring to a lot of people.

There's little opportunity within small-government conservatives, to engage in any sort of "bash the hippies!" posturing. As a consequence, it really has little adherence within the mainstream of Republican thought. For this reason, it doesn't strike me that one could reasonably expect the Republican ideology to be centered around "traditional conservatism." Neoconservatism has the resentment component built right into it.

It is hardly pacifist to say that accomplishing a goal through peaceful means is preferable to accomplishing goals through war; as James Fearon notes, war always has ex ante costs. This is not to say that good things can't be accomplished through war, but accomplishing such things by war will always be more costly than achieving them by negotiation. As such, unless one assigns a positive value to the fighting of war, negotiation will always be the preferred course for a rational actor, until it is clear that these efforts will fail.

Farley is a moron.

Accomplishing things by war isn't always more costly than accomplishing them by negotiation. Negotiation involves costs also - namely the items you give up in the negotiation. There is no a priori reason to believe that the costs of negotiation will be any lower than the costs of war. Indeed, the costs of negotiation can certainly be greater than the costs of war - think of the costs of Neville Chamberlain's negotiation.

Why is it that pacifist, isolationist left-wingers like Farley and Matthew think that negotiation is cost-free? It boggles the mind.

Yeah, conservatism is dead in this country.

Which is too bad-- it's a perspective always worth engaging, and a great philosophy for a watchdog, minority party to embrace.

"The trouble with the emphasis in conservatism on the market," Buckley told me, "is that it becomes rather boring. You hear it once, you master the idea. The notion of devoting your life to it is horrifying if only because it's so repetitious. It's like sex." Conservatism, Kristol complained, "is so influenced by business culture and by business modes of thinking that it lacks any political imagination, which has always been, I have to say, a property of the Left."

So, by his own admission, Kristol is NOT a conservative. He sees conservatives and conservatism as boring and lacking imagination and 100% non-imperialistic. By his own definition, the only true conservative the Elees had in their primary was Ron Paul... and he got booed off the stage.

Woe unto conservatism... you have no home. Not with the Donks, and not with the Pubs anymore.

Well, they're just rehashing one of the oldest ideas in the world: the unifying, energizing and creative force of war vs. the drab boredom of day to day life in peacetime. It's not even an exclusively neo-conservative or even conservative idea: e.g. many fine intellectuals and writers with all sorts of political convictions viewed WWI as the big thing that would provide them with escape from both their personal and the general political malaise. Needless to say, they went home rather disillusioned and realized that it wasn't such a great idea after all. But this urge to be part of something big has always been and will always be with us - and it will always be exploited by warmongers. So it's not enough to just dismiss it in order to show that it's not a good idea.

Do we need a "Chamberlain's Corollary" to Godwin's Law now?

"The only way around this is to assign a positive value to the fighting of war, and this is something that democratic societies don't do...."

They don't? Well our society does. Name a president considered great and chances are he's got us into a war. And many (most) of them weren't conservatives nor even Republicans...

Wilson. FDR. Truman. Kennedy.

Christ, just yesterday Obama was speaking about how he wants to emulate Truman with regards to foreign policy.

"Conservative" presidents are no greater or lesser warmongers than "liberal" presidents.

For ever Bush there's a Wilson. For every Carter there's a Coolidge.

Why is it that pacifist, isolationist left-wingers like Farley and Matthew think that negotiation is [less costly than warfare]

First, Al, I fixed your last sentence to reflect the point you were actually making.

("Why is everybody on this planet engaging in such over-the-top hyperbole???")

Second, the reason pacifist, isolationist left-wingers believe the price of negotiation to be less than the price of war is that we place a high value on human life, and factor in that value when assessing costs and benefits.

It's intrinsic in our world view, and guides much of our thinking.

. Over what? Prescriptions for elderly people? Who gives a damn?

Get this man on a Democratic campaign commercial!

What an enormously stupid statement, almost anti-democratic. "God, I wish we could launch a bunch of arbitrary wars without worrying about all of these elections and kitchen table issues screwing us up."

It's like his whole worldview came from playing Civilization II.

Ah, so now I see where Howard Fineman got his sneering reference to the 2002 Democrats as "the party of prescription drugs." Bo-ring! And kinda wussy, too, like ol' Irving says.

I'm pretty sure Buckley in re sex was being funny.
But Kristol was expressing exactly the kind of madness that destroyed them.
Pre-eminent countries with no imperial status? Egypt. the Republic of Venice. The Netherlands. Richest nations of their day, world traders, sucked at empire.We were colonized by thteir spiritual heirs.
If we were ever a country who really desired empire, Canada would not exist.
We're a big, bullying mercantile country who want favorable trade terms. Brutally favorable if we can get it, but thqat's about it. Buckley saw that, and was bemused by it. Kristol just wants an empire because then (in the immortal words of Jules Feiffer) boy, then he could get girls.

The "great presidents" comment is off-base, I think. Never in history have we had such an opportunity for greatness without war-fighting - most times in the past, we didn't choose the wars. It could also be argued that Lyndon Johnson would be remembered as a great president had he *not* gotten us into the war, or continued it anyway.

I don't see how Farley's TR quotes support the notion that Teddy favored "War for War's Sake" (the title of this blog post). In Farley's first example, TR seems to welcome a war in South America because, he believed, "we would take Canada." In the second example, Roosevelt wanted war with Spain, "for such a war would result at once in getting a proper Navy.” One can reasonable question whether satisfying either of those objectives (acquiring Canada or getting a "proper" Navy) would really have been worth going to war for, but the fact that TR had such objectives in mind at all tends to belie the assertion that he wanted "war for war's sake."

chet, you look like a moron when you post stuff like this 2002 -- Cote d'Ivoire. On September 25, 2002, in response to a rebellion in Cote d'Ivoire, US military personnel went into Cote d'Ivoire to assist in the evacuation of American citizens from Bouake as evidence of our war-mongering. You could have made a somewhat decent point, but instead you just hoped that no one would read and would just be impressed by the length of your post. Idiot.

Peace, prosperity, good medical care . . . they don't seem boring to a lot of people.

Yeah, and you know who gets fucking psyched about the idea of living their lives in a warm bubble of sufficient comfort? Peasants. You optimize for that shit, and you've got a country made for peasants, and I'd rather not.


many fine intellectuals and writers with all sorts of political convictions viewed WWI as the big thing that would provide them with escape from both their personal and the general political malaise. Needless to say, they went home rather disillusioned and realized that it wasn't such a great idea after all.

D'Annunzio, at least, found pretty much exactly what he was looking for. You just have to approach it with a playful nihilism.

In a better world, those quote tags were done right.

Richard Weaver, Leo Strauss and Bill Bennett also think of war as one of the highest human goals.

Matt, thanks for this great post. How insane is it that the statement "War is not preferred" is something we can no longer take as a given?

Thanks, thanks, thanks

For soccty - 4:11 PM

Thank you for your perceptive critique of my post.

You may be right that it may be moronic to include an incursion into the Cote d'Ivoire as compared to, say, the invasion of Grenada, as evidence in a list of what appears to to be incontrovertible proof of US warmongering. Nevertheless, it does tend to demonstrate the US tendency to look for the military solution first.

As to attempting to impress readers with the idiotic length of my post, I assure you that creating such an impression was the least of my concerns- rather, I wanted to provide the complete list that was made available.

Al proves the whole boring/lack of imagination gag anent conservatism.

The Greeks have a lot to answer for with the whole glorification of war bit, but Odysseus had the right idea: the ordinary life is the ideal.

Chet, how does helping to evacuate an embassy during somebody else's armed conflict demonstrate anything about "tendency to look for the military solution first?" It doesn't. They weren't fighting in the conflict.

Let me put it another way. If your list consisted entirely of embassy evacuations and the like, no one would be worrying about American militarism. It weakens your argument immensely. Edit your list.

"In David Brooks’ 1999 McCain-lauding essay, “Politics and Patriotism: From Teddy Roosevelt to John McCain,” Brooks writes that McCain and others worry “that we have become a nation obsessed with risk avoidance and safety.” The cure? To follow Roosevelt who “saw foreign-policy activism and patriotism as remedies for cultural threats he perceived at home.”"

My father's father's father - a handsome, charismatic 6'2 minister, lifelong Republican (even after Hoover), and 100% German-American - told my father stories about TR's anti-German demagogy during WW1 (after the man was near-certifiably crazy).

I liked the Wind and the Lion as much as anyone (in fact I watched a few minutes of it this morning) and Roosevelt's handling of the San Francisco earthquake (as well as a number of other things [Taft's 180 on the forestry service was appalling]) was excellent but you hope that if (when?) the McCain fellow becomes president his age will have tempered the angry, irrational side.

In fact, my whole worldview did come from Civilization II. That's where I learned that it's best to remain a monarchy until you develop communism, skipping over republicanism and democracy.

That's the only way to prevent your subjects from rioting as you expand the empire, after all.

"TR's bloodlust (and that is not an exaggeration) was cured by the death of his son Quentin in the first World War. TR was crushed by this and died himself six months later."

Not just that.
Quentin, despite being as near-sighted as his father, got into the Air Service. He was serving at a Depot in the rear--where he should have been, given his eyes--when his brothers visited him and suggested he could be doing something at the front if he was braver.
He volunteered for a squadron, got posted, was shot down in a matter of days. The Germans actually made a postcard of his mangled body lying next to his crashed plane.
It's one thing to risk your own life, but to raise a family with an ethos of heedless risk may be just the kind of thing that might make a thoughtful man weary of life.
Mind you, nothing like that is likely to happen to Mssrs. Brooks, Kristol, Cheney, Addington, Libby, etc.


"Name a president considered great and chances are he's got us into a war."

Name a president and chances are he's got us into a war.

For mwg - 9:52 PM

Re: "tendency to look for the military solution first?"

In terms of the evacuation of embassies, can you cite one example of a country other than the US using its military in such evacuations?

The rather infamous French embassy evacuation in Rwanda in 1994 springs immediately to mind, although I'm sure there are many others...


Comments closed July 29, 2008.

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